560. - Thurston Moore

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone after years of doing this podcast with Jason Stewart, he just realized that the Zoom link that I send him in the calendar for every episode is the same. How does that feel? Are you okay? Are you going to be able to record today? Usually it would be normal that I would be able to remember a URL consisting of us02web.200j366116212226. I don't think you should remember it. I think you should realize after a while that it's the same one. That's all. I don't expect you to recite it. It is a URL with literally... Over a hundred random characters, not even artificial intelligence could memorize that, Chris, or even recognize that it is the same one every time. But I do have egg on my face on an important day with an important guest. I feel like shit. I feel like shit now. Actually, I gotta go. No, no, I don't mean to call you out like that. I guess it's the first time I've ever had a technical leg up, so it felt good. Even if fleeting, it felt pretty good. I don't know if we're going to call... Knowing a random number is the same every time a technical feat.

But we should move on. We should move on. I apologize. I apologize. I didn't know that you were so good at URLs, but you are kind of king of the net, so it does make sense. I'm king of the W-W-W. You seem like more of a point and click and less of a typey typey, but who knows. That is true. That is true. You weren't really in MS-DOS as a youngster. I was not. Entering in text-based commands like I was. It's fine. I was not BC. I want to give a congratulations. To Francis Bean and Tony Hawk. Tony Hawk's son, Riley. What? They got married this weekend, and it looks like Michael Stipe officiated. Okay. Which is a big flex. Okay, I feel old now. Okay, so Tony Hawk's son. Riley. A known rocker, Riley. Yeah, and then Kurt's daughter. Imagine being named Riley Hawk and not being a rocker. Also, what? Daily Mail is saying Kurt Cobain's daughter. I mean, is this Courtney Love erasure? Of course. Is that what we're doing? I don't like that at all. I don't like it either, and I don't think our guest does either. He's sort of on team court as well. This story is hitting close to home because we were trying to get Stipe to officiate our wedding last weekend, and he said he was unavailable, and Nomi Fry was able to step in. I guess now I know why. He was under embargo as to the details exactly why he couldn't do it. But now that you've seen it, it's good to have some more visibility and you see the reason why and you understand. Yeah, I understand. You don't hold a grudge against Stipe anymore. I would never hold a grudge against Stipe. We were also looking for a little singing, which I think maybe put him off. So maybe they let him off the hook, you know what I mean, with just... Stipe's good at a lot of things. He's not better than Nomi Fry at officiating a wedding. Who do you think's a better reader? Let's be real. Who's a better dick sucker? I don't know. Also, though, there's a sexy photo shoot today in GQ with a friend of the show, Hayley Bieber. My phone is still smoking after looking at the Skims ads. God, we're talking about dumb shit with this guest today, but this is what we do.

Wait, I forgot about the Skims. I forgot about the Skims ads. Let's go. Yeah, so Skims. Who was I talking about this? I guess we were talking about it. Should we cancel Thurston? Yeah, last night we had dinner with Fran and Jackie who are visiting from Toronto, and we brought up the Skims men's. campaign, which I think we all like. I think it's officially a W. Once again, Kim, the only L Kim's taking this week is being pictured with Ivanka Trump at her birthday party. But otherwise, I think putting all these brawny bronze athletes in this. They're not all brawny. One of them is brawny. The other two, I would say, are a little bit more twunky here. No, bro. The basketball player guy is fucking ripped. So is the football player. What are you talking about? You could be 6'7 and 195 pounds and be ripped, but you are not brawny. You have muscle definition, but the muscle that is being defined... Ain't much. Yeah, okay. He's got a lot of torque, not a ton of horsepower into the hood, which is fine. This feels like it's hitting close to home for you, and I don't know. Well, I learned about these images through Azalea Banks' Instagram, and she sort of offered her unsolicited thoughts on each photo and each model. Yes, I saw that. And she was saying the guy, the big football, I don't know any of these people, the American-style football player. He's the only one who passed the Thiccum test, where the other ones are more of a... Which hurts me, because I would fall into more of a toothpick category myself. Yeah, okay, so Neymar Jr., who's a soccer player, Nick Bosa, and Shea. Shea is the basketball player. I think Nick is the football player. Amazing traps on that guy. Also, is Neymar Jr., is that just his name? Like, is his last name Junior? I don't know. Or does he just not have a last name? They just call him that. I don't fucking know. That's what they've always called him. It's like Lil Terrio? Yeah. I've only seen it that way, so I don't know. I've literally only seen it that way. I've never thought about it. I didn't know that professional athletes were allowed to just have made-up names like that. You know, it's not like Prince or anything. I think you just have to use your name. But what do I know nowadays? I'm still reeling on the fact that Kurt Cobain and Courtney loves...

kid is now old enough to be married and got married did you not meet francis at the festival just like heaven and just like heaven i had a nice chat with with francis and ian bradley because they're friends he brought they they were at the festival together and matt sukar and it was it was a nice afternoon and i but i didn't know uh i didn't realize until later that she was you didn't see the hardware on the on the hand you know riley got her a sick black diamond you know No, it's actually sustainably sourced. Damn. I know you're still reeling from this, but hopefully you can recover. My dog, Kurt, is still spinning in the grave. Yeah, I mean, Kurt... Well, he actually did the world's first 900 in his grave. Oh, shit! Well, I think that I think that they've chosen to live. They kind of they live in like San Diego, I think, and are just kind of I feel like it's an amazing life. Well, I think I think Tony has like a compound in Encinitas or something like that, where you just like literally open your bedroom door and like skate down a ramp. And then like a lady hands you a bowl of cereal and you're like, all right, later, I'm going to go to quote unquote work. And work for Riley Hawk is like waxing curbs for his dad. No, that's not true. That's like mowing lawns. I'm sure he has a major label record deal. Don't be crazy. Is he like a real musician? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure it's like, I mean, it's not for us, obviously, but I'm pretty sure it's like real. What comes after a 900? 1260? Kurt just busted 1260 in the fucking grave. You know I'm not able to do that kind of math, bro. You can't. Multiples of 360? Oh, good luck. I'm looking for a page-turner for our flight to Australia, and I guess I'm going to have to buy the Britney Spears book. I don't want to. Is it out? Yeah, it's out. I mean, it is crazy that Oscar winner Michelle Williams reads the audiobook.

Which seems insane. Michelle Williams doesn't need the money, so they must be friends or she must be low-key a celebrity lover or something. It's really baffling. I guess at the time when the book needed to be narrated... I'm sure Britney was unable to speak enough or well enough. I don't think Britney can read. She can sing and dance, but that doesn't mean you can read. So I think Michelle probably had to step in. At some point, she knew how to read. Well, I mean... I saw her auditions for The Notebook recently resurface. She was obviously... She nailed those lines. She was running lines. Our guest is here, Chris. Oh, okay. Shit, sorry. No, it's okay. Yeah, we do have a guest today. Thurston Moore, you know him from his band Sonic Youth. He has a new memoir. out now um sonic life uh that is in stores everywhere i believe a great title he's he's tapping in from from london so we're doing the the rare monday pod or excuse me the where the rare morning pod with him so let's uh let's get into it lovely oh this is huge for me personally this episode of how long gone is brought to you by task rabbit oh baby let me tell you something this is this is not a joke i use task rabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code

how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Would you like some pineapple, Thurston? I would love some. That sounds delicious. Yeah, now, so I didn't know, did you relocate to London, or are you just there for a spell? I've been here over 10 years. Oh, I didn't realize that. Well, I didn't make a big deal out of it, but yeah. We didn't get that press release in our email inbox. I swear I CC'd you on that. Yeah, I've been here about over 10 years. Do you just like it? Because we just like it there as well, but I always wondered what it would feel like to relocate. If somebody told me 20 years ago, 20 plus years ago, that I was going to relocate to the UK, London specifically, I thought they were crazy. Because every time we came here, it was always just like pissy rain or just like slamming rain. It was like the worst weather ever, the worst food ever.

But things change. Could I have some more adjectives for the rain, please? I like pissing and slamming. I need two more. Pissing and slamming. That's my greatest hits album, pissing and slamming. Yeah. So the rain's belting you about the balls and face. The food isn't any better. But now in 10 years. Thanks to global warming, the rains have calmed down and the food has improved greatly, hasn't it? I think the food got better when some young up-and-coming chefs like the naked chef, Jamie Oliver. I never really saw him when he was naked. I guess he was naked at one point. I've never seen Jamie Oliver's haul either, Thurston and Weird. I didn't know that the Food Network could show X-rated content like that, but at the time, he must have been. I was upset when I moved here and he wasn't naked. I thought the guy was supposed to be naked. Let's get you out of that apron, Jamie. Come on now. I'm going back to New York unless you take the apron off. This is bullshit. I used to watch that show when it was on TV in the late 90s or whatever. You know, I was like, this is an inspiration. One day I'll learn how to cook. Well, he raised the food consciousness of England, supposedly. But I do remember in the 70s, it was terrible. I mean, you sort of had to find salvation by going to Indian restaurants, which are generally okay, or pubs. And the pub food was generally okay as well. But now it's... Across the board, you can actually eat well. You can also still eat kind of post-war terrible if you wish. That's still out there. And the weather is kind of like, it's like the new Barcelona here. Yeah, we were in London a few times last year doing some live podcasting. And lucky for us, our brand of pod, London, bends their ear to us, as they say. Yeah, every time we go, my wife and I will just walk around after dinner, and she's like, should we just move here? And then everyone's like, don't move here. It rains every day that you're not here. Every time you come, it's perfect, and every time you're gone, it's raining. Don't come here. Dude, I don't know what your politics are, but I can only say one thing. There's no firearms here. Oh, yeah. It's more of a stabbing culture. Yeah, there's a lot of stabbing going on. Baseball bats everywhere. Yeah, I would like to live in a place where...

You don't have to have... Yeah, like, where was it, Chris? There was a sign on an entrance of, like... Oh, that was in South Carolina. We were driving from Atlanta to Charleston. No, this was something in California. South Carolina, I can only guess. Hey, hey, hey. My wife was at a mall, the Glendale Galleria, a mall here in Los Angeles, near where we live, and there's a sign on the wall that says, no firearms allowed. Yeah. It's so unfortunate that we have to have that sign. In a state where guns are not allowed... to be taken into any business or on your person at any time. Oh, I thought you were talking about in South Carolina where it says the sign posted on the gas station is like the owner of this establishment has a 45, you know, and that's like screw the dog. Beware of owner. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's a lot of that. I don't, you know, it's easier to, it's easier to deflect a slashing knife. You're in a knife fight here in the wild, hardcore streets of London than it is to dodge us. I'll take my chance with the lead pipe. Thurston, this isn't a diss to you, but I don't know if you could fend off a stabbing. I don't know if I could either. Well, there's too much of me. Yeah, I know. I have too much physical real estate. I have too much. Yeah, actually, how tall are you in inches, please? I know you've been there for 10 years. I'm about 10 feet 10. He's six. I read this. You're 6'6", because Jason's 6'9". Are you? You're 6'9"? Yeah, yeah. It's not a competition, Thurston. Yeah, I'm 6'9". Wow. You can't tell. I'm sitting down on Zoom, but yeah. Were you pressured to play basketball when you were in high school? That was sort of the beginning of my depression, because the coaches didn't even... Like, I would walk past the coach down the hallway. And he wouldn't even look in my eye. He wouldn't even ask me, like, hey, do you play basketball? He would just be like, no, we're good. I wasn't exuding athletic at that time. His lack of coordination was just clearly visible to the coach without having to do any drills. I can go one-on-one with you for the lack of coordination. Okay. That'd be great. Were you recruited as a youngster? I actually kind of thought, like, maybe I should do it because, hey, I'm, like, the tallest. I was always the second tallest. There was always some guy.

who was like a million feet tall, who kind of like couldn't do anything. Nice to meet you. That person is always me. Thank you for not making me the tallest. You're always the person who is like, oh, that guy's 6'5", 6'4", 6'6". That's the good height. And then I'm 6'9", where like your life doesn't really get better unless you're in the NBA at that point. Right. The only things that happen is people are just like... Oh, God, they look at you like a monster and then you can't buy clothes, shoes, fit in airplanes or cars, et cetera. I mean, the NBA is kind of that's kind of not the worst kind of, you know, idea for anybody who's that tall. You know, but, yeah, you have to be coordinated. You have to be well fit. You have to be more than just tall. How's your coordination level at this point? Has it gotten worse or better? Well, that's the thing. When I first went out, I actually tried out for basketball in high school thinking, like, that's kind of what they want me to do. And I kind of went to the first practice. And the coaches looked at me, and they were, like, whistling, like, yeah, oh, my God, come on in here. And they were, like, just starting me out first. And I was just like, I didn't even know which way to run. So I was kind of going to the wrong basket. Oh, wow. All the four-foot kids wanted to beat the hell out of me. So all the coaches' smiles started turning into frowns as you realized. By the end of the third practice, I was just like, I'm out of here. I have to go to the mall to find a Led Zeppelin record or something. And the coaches were like, they caught me. They finally caught me. They were like. With tears in their eyes. They did you a favor. They did you a favor, but it was hard for everyone. They handed you a badminton racket and said, it's been nice knowing you, son. Yeah, it's been hard. Here's a Stratocaster. Get the fuck out of here. We had this experience the other night because we went to see Priscilla and Jacob Elordi was there. And Jason was, he's like 6'5". And Jason leaned over to me and he was like, see, that motherfucker, 6'5", that's the right height. 6'9 is just too much. And it is true. 6'9 is good.

Sick Night's cool. I mean, you know. Thanks, Thurston. It's talking about actors. I mean, wasn't Fred McMurray like 6'9 or something? He was tall. Yeah, I think there's been some that are that tall. But I think that they might play undesirable characters from time to time because of their gangly appearance. They get typecast as kind of a freak. Yeah. Not to bring up Halloween, you know. I was in a Britney Spears video, and I was cast as a vulturist paparazzo, and I was only cast because of my height and looming energy. Yeah, she's single now. I think maybe you still have a chance to sort of get your life together in a very new way. You guys have been rapping about Britney Spears for quite a while now, so I think there's a buzz going on there. Well, I mean, there's a lot. Well, it's memoir season. I don't have to tell you that, Thurston. But hers and hers are kind of the Kanye and the Jay-Z fighting it out for supremacy, right? Yeah. I would love to interview her. Who's going to number one? I would love to sit down and have a memoir face-off with her. Well, Mel Ottenberg is listening. Mel, the editor of Interview Magazine. Interview Magazine. If you interviewed Brittany and Brittany interviewed you for the cover shoot, you're sitting on Brittany's lap. She can handle it. She's strong. Wow. I don't know about that. Okay, because we were uncovering earlier in the intro that Oscar winner Michelle Williams reads Britney's audio book. Do you have the audio version? I read my own. You had to do it. I've heard that's very challenging. If Michelle Williams would have read mine, I don't really have that kind of coin. I don't think Michelle Williams did that out of the kindness of her heart. This is what I was saying to Jason. There could have been a transaction involved. In the intro, I'm sure she was paid quite well, but Michelle Williams doesn't need the money. And she knows that people are going to look at that as like, oh, that's odd. What's the most she could get for something like that? More than a million dollars? According to Brittany, she wrote the book a long time ago because she kind of sort of – I follow Brittany's social media. She kind of came out the other day saying – She's the reason why you wrote this memoir. All these critics are kind of yelling about these certain things in the book. She goes like –

But wait, I wrote it a long time ago. I'm not like that anymore. And I was just like, that's that. No, no, no, no. You can't like publish a memoir and say I'm not like that anymore. That's a really cool. Unless you're going to title it that. If you title your memoir, like I'm not like that anymore. That's what Harvey Weinstein said, too, on the stand. That's the old me, Judge. Come on now. That's a crazy thing to say. That is a crazy thing to say. Yeah, she was like really like kind of angry. Like, why are they kind of like making all this negative commentary about things I wrote about? You know, what's his name? Her friend in the Mickey Mouse Club who. Kind of gets kind of lambasted over the cold. Justin Timberlake. Justin Timberlake. Justin's getting hit hard from every side on this, and I do feel like maybe – He's a survivor. He's a survivor. But I feel like maybe there's some – I don't know what you can do at this point besides just let it go. Like there's no winning if you're him. You just have to like sit back and get killed. There's nothing you can do. Yeah, you know, I think he could take the punch. He opened up for Ozzy Osbourne once in Canada, I remember, years ago and got like... Yeah, I'm sure. If you can make it through that, you can make it through anything. Yeah, exactly. Only a Canadian would put that bill together and think that it would work out. Justin Timberlake on OzFest Alberta is really a one-of-one kind of situation. That's crazy. That's crazy. I mean, that's the live CDR that I would like to sort of hear, but I haven't found it yet. You've got to get deeper on Reddit. What is it like reading the audiobooks? it feels like that would be, I've seen it depicted on film and television as something that's very difficult. Or did you find it, did you find it easy? I mean, I found it pretty easy. I just sort of, I mean, I read and I read and I read and it took like about a week and a couple of days. I thought I could do it like in two days. My book is a bit of a, a bit of a doorstop. It's about 500 pages. It was contracted, yeah, it was contracted for 300. I handed an 800.

And my editor wrote me back and said, have you ever read Ulysses? And I was like, no. Who reads Ulysses? He goes, well, you know, this is like reading Ulysses twice. Think of the longest book he ever wrote. And then, like, you know. He's like, you're in a cool band, all right? You're not Moses. Chill. Exactly. He's like, you're not Winston Churchill, kid. Keep it to the guitar tunnings. Well, I mean, that's good. I mean, 800 and then whittling it down. To a scant 500, that means that – It's like a Jonathan Franzen. It's like as if Jonathan Franzen wrote a book about me. Wow, that's a good kind of jacket selling point. If there's still time to put that on the back sleeve, yeah. We can get that in for paperback. And then now you have that extra 300 pages for a Sonic Youth-style B-Sides. Yeah, yeah. Memoir B-Sides release. We'll do that on vinyl day. We're going to do a gatefold quadruple 12-inch. It's going to be Record Store Day exclusive. Best Buy exclusive. That's exclusive. But was it like, did you feel like you were reliving it again? Oh, God. When you write a book, you kind of read it over and over again anyway when you're editing. I spent all of last year fully editing it with my editor at Doubleday. So I kind of was pretty intimate with the text. But reading it out loud, it was the first time I could do like a full read and sort of think like, am I actually a writer? Because I wanted to write a book because I like to write more than kind of writing about myself. So the idea of a memoir was just a device that allowed me to actually write a book that somebody would be interested in publishing as opposed to me writing fiction or writing about anything else. But what I did, I actually wrote mostly about other things. signifiers and ephemera, like records and books that really... intrigued and inspired me and all that kind of stuff so uh it was more approachable that way than just like the full-on like having pegs it's not a it's not about my it's not my dark ages sure sure yeah i mean i i think this style is is kind of fun jarvis cocker did something kind of similar with his that's right yeah and it was pop bat pop yeah and it was it's interesting because you you see it and you're like why the fuck is he talking about this and you're like oh okay okay it works we got into it yeah it's a fun it's a fun way to lay it out i think it's probably

easier to to think of things that way for certain people it allowed me to do it allowed me to go to the library and like go through like all these archives of like um newspapers and village voices and sounds enemy melody maker and and really sort of get together folders of all of this arcana that was just you know lost to them yeah to uh so you you went in and pulled the microfiche yourself i got I had to find the microfiche of the Village Voice, and the New York Public Library said they didn't have digital on it. And I went to – I kept looking for it, and I went to book dealers who said, like, you know – We can sell you copies at 50 bucks a piece. It came out every week since 1958. I don't really have that kind of coin. I just needed from 78 onwards, especially into the 80s and 90s. There's a Google Doc online, but it's blacked out in the 80s, which doesn't do me so much good. Then I went to the Library of Congress site. That's a rat nest of a warrant of just information, but I found a library that had all of the Village Voices supposedly on microfiche. And it was the Fort Lauderdale Library in Florida. And it just so happened that I was going down to South Miami. Gas up the jet. Let's go. We're going to. I had a rez at Nobu on Ocean, so I said we'll swim by. Yeah, I wasn't hanging out at Nobu. I wasn't hanging out at Nobu. I had a DJ set down there, so I'll just fly. JetBlue does Fort Lauderdale. It's an hour-long drive. It's no problem. What's the real reason you had business down in Fort Lauderdale? I was born there. I have some family there. I have friends there. My wife, Eva, and I, we go down there, and we spend time there. We'll rent or do an Airbnb. When you say South... South Florida. Is that Miami? Are we hitting the Keys? South Miami, yeah. It's just south of Miami proper. Coral Gables, Coconut Grove. Oh, I'm a big Coconut. I love to see the Coconut Grove. It's being brought back to life, nursed back to life, where there's more restaurants than just a Johnny Rockets on the corner there. Yeah. In the 60s, when I was a kid, I lived there, and that's where all the hippies were. And so they all hung out in Peacock Park.

you know and so yeah that's where i bought my my first underground uh like comic was like in coconut grove and it was all barefoot hippies my mother used to chase after the hippies because they were trying to catch coin off me all the time and i was a little kid and she's like get away from him what'd you give him what'd you buy It'd be like a fabulous Furry Freaks Brothers comic. What is this trash? I'm glad to know there was some counterculture. Hitting a hippie with a broom? I like that. I'm just surprised there was that much counterculture going on in Coconut Grove. Oh, there was, yeah. I didn't know that. That whole area got moneyed. Well, actually, the whole area, like Miami Beach and Miami, got really, really kind of dodgy. all through the 80s. You wouldn't go there. I mean, that was just like, it was a police state. It wasn't a popular tourist destination the way it is now. Not like Alphabet City in the 80s. No, but it was like Alphabet City compounded. It was like a whole other world. You know, it's when Castro unleashed the prisons. sent all the Cuban prisons into Miami, and then there was all this organized crime coming in from South America. All that organized crime is a little different when it's 100 degrees, 100% humidity, too. It feels more serious. It's more psychedelic. It's a psychedelic crime. It is psychedelic crime. The Coke was cheap, though, man. The Coke was cheap. Very cheap. Oh, yeah, yeah. You could bust open a coconut and just drink it on the street. Different kind of Coke I was talking about. I was talking about a different kind of Coke. I like how pure... I was able to go to Fort Lauderdale to the library. You know, first I called. I said, you know, are you open? Because it was, you know, it was pandemic year. And they were like, yeah, we just opened. It's like a little old lady. I was like, do you have, do you have like a voice on microfilm? And she's like, what? You know, I said, hold on a second. I said, it was a newspaper, New York City. She goes, hold on. And she goes, let me call the periodicals. department let me get the periodicals later i'll be right back please hold 10 minutes later another like little old lady gets on the phone goes like hello i was like do you have a microphone she goes like hold on a second and then 10 minutes later she comes back on the phone she goes like yes we do i said are you sure she goes yes we do yeah you know i was like so i fly to miami set myself up i got my laptop i'm ready to do some research and some writing

I rent a car because I don't have a car. I just bicycle around down there. Cool. And I rent a car, and I ride the Fort Lauderdale 30 minutes. That library is surrounded by homeless encampments, and there's a police building across the street. It's pretty weird. It's pretty funky, and there's nobody else around. I walk into this monolithic building. It's like one of the central libraries in southern Florida. and i find on this fifth floor the the the the periodicals department and it's just plexiglass everywhere and those two little old ladies i talked on the phone fully mass and a cop fully mass and he comes over to me he goes like you need to be fully mass and you can't eat or drink while you're here and i was like yeah but i gotta work you know but so they pulled out this cart and just like wobbling with like microfilm, like these little square canisters. Yeah. And they showed me how to run the crank of the microfilm thing. And it was fantastic. So I started, I went there for about two weeks from like 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. every day. And I would bring a bag of bananas and a bottle of water underneath my shirt. And when the cop wasn't looking, I would just like, you know, so I subsisted on bananas and water. Every once in a while, he'd bust me. I love that you almost died from starvation at a library in Fort Lauderdale using the microfiche machine. Surviving off of bananas and water. Did Brittany do this? No, definitely not. Did Brittany do this? Brittany didn't even write her own book, so you've got her beat on that. How do we know that? I just have some sneaking suspicions. I'm sure, much like Nobu, I'm sure if you asked Brittany what microfiche was, she would think it's a sushi restaurant. No, dude, we were hanging out at Las Camarones. That's the joint. It's fresh fish every day. What about Joe's Stone Crab? Do you ever ride your bicycle over there?

I never rode my bicycle over there because that's on the beach. But I have to go over the causeway. That's dangerous on the bike. The causeway. That's a good way to die. I was always a Key Biscayne enthusiast myself. Love it, yeah. But it was always fascinating to me because everybody's so rich and there's not one good restaurant. You have to drive 40 minutes to go eat. Key Biscayne, there is like a little sort of fisherman's kind of like hobble on the water down a dirt road. secrets of South Miami, South Florida that I could sort of, I could blow your mind with. Oh, wow. Okay. So you're the shaman for South Florida. Good to know. Book number two. There's another place there called something that the parrot, the golden parrot or the bent parrot. There's another place that's like right when you get into the keepers. No, the bent parrot's a gay bar around the corner from your house. Oh, that's right. My bad, my bad. That's the pub. That's my local. It's a joint where Iggy Pop hangs out every Wednesday night. I always forget that he's the Miami stalwart. He's the guy there. Because he's lived there the whole time, right? He's been there a while. He's a sun worshiper. Yes. We can tell by looking at him. He grew up in Michigan. He deserves some sunshine. That's right. Are you guys bros? Do you guys hang out in Florida ever? This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area.

You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy but, you know, still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. You know, they focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. I've crossed paths with him a few times through my career, but I interviewed him for Rough Trade Records at his man cave in North Miami.

I know him and his wife live in Coconut Grove, and they keep to themselves. But I hung out with him a little bit. I had lunch with him once in Coconut Grove, but with a bunch of a... Can you give me some details around Iggy's man cave, kind of how that's furnished? He doesn't seem like a traditional man cave kind of guy. Well, you know, I'd hate for him to think that I was kind of divulging his interior decorations. Of course, of course. But what was really great about it, you can still see it in Jim Jarmusch's Gimme Danger film. He's sitting in the washroom doing that interview. So I recognized the washroom. He has a little kind of tiny river in the back that he hangs out and just chills out back there. He has a lot of artwork that he's done himself of paintings and some drawings that are on the walls and some Stooges ephemera that's framed on the walls. And so it's very kind of, it's really cute, sweet, small little modest place. But man, his bedroom, like I just sort of took a peek in there, man, he's got like a super duper king size bed. With like the most like this purple silk. I mean, I don't know what goes on in there. You can only imagine. It looked like Elvis's bedroom. Yeah. It's giving Graceland. Oh, yeah. This is the iguana. Elvis is Elvis. You know, I don't think, you know, Elvis could only dance alone. Oh, wow. Damn. That's that's OK. Albert Goldman book. That's what he said. Albert. Elvis would only dance alone. He couldn't like when he was dancing. There was never. In the movies, he'll dance with Ann-Margaret because he had to. He got paid. But Colonel Tom Parker made sure that – Only way I'll dance with women is if I'm getting paid too, so I get it. I mean, that's my thing too. I totally get it. Okay, so was your two weeks of microfishing fruitful? Yeah. Did you get a lot of stuff out of that? The only problem with it is that I kept sort of coming across so much information about things.

I'm really interested in that I probably wasn't so interested in back in the day when I used to read the Village Voice in the late 70s, early 80s when I was a kid and I kind of the band was starting. So later on, I became a more sophisticated arbiter of taste and got into sort of theater and poetry, et cetera. I was like, wow, you know, there was all this history in New York City that was like in my neighborhood that I was not imbibing in that I wish I could go back in time and actually have, you know. been part of yeah so you got you got sidetracked with all the cool stuff other than yourself by my own bullshit yeah yeah yeah yeah so where where in new york were you living before you left before i left um i kim and i lived on like lafayette street uh in houston most of the 90s and then we moved up to western massachusetts northampton massachusetts primarily for our daughter to go to school up there because the schools were begging for kids to go and have great educations as opposed to like uh you know competing to get into like the worst schools like in manhattan so it was a no-brainer we moved out there it was three that's that's actually it's funny we were talking to jeff tweedy um and he we're talking about mass mocha and that whole thing up there and how how kind of special it is yeah and it's not that far from new york but it feels like there's there's more culture than like connecticut or something yeah yeah yeah it's kind of cool in northampton massachusetts where we were had a It was a total scene up there around UMass and Mount Holyoke College and what's the liberal arts school up there. Is that where Williams is? Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we lived up there a long time. But the last New York thing was, yeah, it was like Lafayette Street. We lived on Eldridge Street, like way lower east side. It was right before Chinatown kind of like took it over. And at that time, it was completely old school, like Yiddish neighborhoods. It was kind of great. It was a really great confluence. And before that, I lived on 13th between A and B, which is basically, you know, being chased home by local teenagers.

Real neighborhood guy. You know what? It's inspiring to see someone of your stature, and you've lived a lot of life, and you never lived in Brooklyn, and that's something that I'm aspiring to as well. To never live in Brooklyn. Yeah, to never live in Brooklyn, no matter how great the pool is, no matter how beautiful the brownstone, no matter how many friends live there, because that's not New York. Manhattan is New York. In the 70s and 80s, you didn't know anything about Brooklyn. I mean, Brooklyn was not an alternative at all. And if anybody did live in Brooklyn, it was just kind of weird. It's like, well, you might as well be in Rhode Island, for God's sakes. Yeah, that's how I feel. But it was an economic thing. I mean, all of a sudden it was cheaper, and Manhattan got priced out, and that's all there is to it. But yeah, I paid like $112 a month when I was on 13th Street. You know, one twelve nuts, right? I mean, I hear stories like that, you know, and I really do have a hard time wrapping my head around that, you know, that that rent was that cheap anywhere, anytime. I mean, there is a price when you have to get, like you said, chased home by teenagers every night. Yeah. You know, you pay the price. Good trade. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of terrorism was like kind of manifested into coin. Yes, yes, yes. You want to live here? Does London scratch? So did you want to go back to a city? Was that part of the appeal of London? I moved here because when Kim and I broke up, we broke up because I fell in love with this woman, Eva. She moved here as we were trying to figure things out. And she moved to an area of London that I knew was kind of rough. In the 80s, because I used to hang out there. And when we would come to London, I would stay there with some people. And when she told me where she was, she started renting a place here by herself. I thought a single woman cannot live there. And I immediately flew over. Hey, hey, to make sure she was OK, babe. I'm coming over right now. Just keep the door locked and I'll be there in a second. OK, that's what happened.

And I didn't recognize the area. It was like what happened in New York. It was like where there was once a drug den was now like a Whole Foods. Sure. And where there was once dealers on the street harassing you was now young marrieds pushing, quote, unquote, prams. Yes, of course. So you showed up with your baseball bat and your guitar cases, and it was like, sweetie, we're good. I was like, what? Where am I? I'll bring you a flat white. Just go relax. Exactly. And so I stayed. And, you know, we picked up our life and I started a band. I got together with my friend Deb Gouge from My Bloody Valentine and started a band with her and a guitar player named James Edwards. And Steve Shelley from Sonic Youth was flying back and forth and drumming. And then ultimately I started using a drummer here in London because, you know, that. that plane ticket was kind of the most expensive cab ride in the world. Yeah. Yeah. For a band. And we started making records and do, you know, we kind of been through the wars together, you know, both our bands kind of had our eighties, nineties, like hurrah. Yeah. But we, so we kind of just have fun making music together and making records. And I kind of write, I write serious music. It comes out seriously for serious listeners, but you know, you know, it's, it's, it's what it is. So. Now we live sort of a little outside of central London, a little further out in like a very modest what you can almost see here, like a very modest little house. Yeah, it looks it looks quite quaint. It's quaint. Yeah, it's all right. I like it. What's the art collection looking like after all the years of being around? Or did you lose some of that? Well, I mean, I'm not really, I don't really collect art so much. It's kind of, that's kind of a high ticket thing. I don't really, I mean, I'm not like, you know. Oh, I didn't expect it. No, I didn't mean because of, I didn't mean that. I meant it because you were in the circles at the right time. You know, the trading. Yeah, like we just, I just watched the Mr. Chow documentary and he's wealthy beyond his years because he just.

Had, you know, all these amazing artists, you know, draw on a napkin and you framed it one day and now it's worth five million dollars. Yeah. Well, I mean, so do you have any Basquiat napkins in the guest bathroom? I was going to say, I sort of like I kind of wish I sort of ripped down some of those maple for some of those doors and that you would see. And it's used to see them in Soho, like Basquiat stuff all the time. It's like. Why didn't I just, like, tear that stuff off the wall and bring it home? Because back then we lived in this society. Now when Banksy spray paints a petrol station, somebody just attaches the entire building to a truck and drags it off to a gallery. I have cool art. You have some cool art there I can see. I mean, you know. Yeah, Jason has his famous pet shop voice poster that guests. Yeah, that's really intense. Famous. Are you not a Pet Shop Boys guy, Thurston, or do you just think the poster is intense? My wife's daughter, who's all of 14 now, when she was a little girl, she used to call them the Ketchup Boys. I was like, that's such a good name for a band, the Ketchup Boys. That is a great name for a band. It also sounds derogatory, but I don't know why. I'm not sure why it makes me feel that way. I don't feel good, but I don't know why. Slightly uncomfortable band name, yeah. Wait, so when you guys got together, she had a daughter, and so you were back in daddy mode? I'm always in daddy mode, baby. Okay, good to know. His daddy switch doesn't turn off. I can't stop. So you liked that. That was fun. It wasn't daunting. It's all about the love. I have a really beautiful piece of art over here that my finger is pointing to now that you can't really see. It looks amorphous and dark. That is a painting by... by gina birch of the raincoats that banned the raincoats of course but it's dark in here you know it's almost nighttime here you know we're kind of we know we know we did we did a very we did the 9 a.m la time for you to kind of accommodate your schedule oh i appreciate that hey you know what it's our pleasure you've been up since six you did a little bit just some jogging you did some yoga you did that's right i mean you had a power shake you joke you joke thurston but i have been up since six and

I normally would have worked out before this, but because of my – Jason and I are leaving for Australia tomorrow for tour. Wow. And there's a lot going on, so I had to work out a little later in the day, which I don't love. I'm a morning guy. What's the first stop? Melbourne? Sydney? We're only doing a show in Melbourne, actually. Okay. We're doing like a festival, so we fly to – we have to lay over in Sydney, but then to Melbourne. You've been many times, I assume. Been a few times, yeah. I love it. You do like it? I love it. I think Melbourne, I think Australia is a great, great, great country. And I'm a little miffed at what went down recently with them not allowing the indigenous people much of a presence in the government. But, you know, I mean, I think all of our sort of democratic governments now are just kind of like looking like buffoons. More so than ever, so I can't even wrap my head around any of this. But that said, have you been there? No, no. Jason has. I've been. He has. Incredible. So get a big brekkie. Don't. Do not. Do not. We joke about this all the time on the show. Have it all day long. Because breakfast is the same there, but they call it something stupid and claim that it's better. And that's what I don't understand. It's not only is it better. but it's better all day long. It's the only thing you need to eat, unless you kind of want to throw some shrimp on the barbie later when you're sort of hanging out. Yeah, of course. That's what we're going to be doing. We're going to be hanging out. Jason's going to be grilling. But to me, the Australian brekkie is the same thing that I can get in Los Angeles, but where you live, a full English, that is a unique and rare breakfast that you can't really get anywhere else. This is true, but you don't really want to eat it past like 10 a.m. The big brekkie in Australia, It's like it's something that keeps you light on your feet. It's sustenance all day long, I think. I think because it's like for some reason it's healthier. Well, sure. It's even healthier than L.A. because I don't think L.A. I think L.A. is conning you with a health thing. Yeah, that's true. Do you think our entire identity is alive? All right, beans on toast. Slow down. Okay.

A full English breakfast is absolutely insane. I don't eat meat, so I would never eat something like that to begin with, but I find it crazy that people eat that. To me, the tomato is the most fucked up part about it. I won't eat that. I don't eat that stuff. What do you normally eat, Thurston? What's your diet look like? There's black pudding and spotted dick. No, I don't eat that stuff. What do I normally eat? I generally am... Besides bananas. Kind of a non-carnivore carnivore. Interesting. You know, I'm like a guilty carnivore in a way. Okay. And it's just like, and I say that because I go back and forth a lot with like wanting to be a vegetarian. I spent years being a vegetarian and then when I started sneaking meat back into my diet, you know, I'm kind of like, I'm like a... a strong a plus red blood cell kind of person so it's just like that kind of protein just makes me feel like i could like you know conquer the universe in a way you're an alpha male and you need alpha protein i'm an alpha i'm an alpha male with like you know With heart issues. And a full head of glowing, beautiful hair. I'm 65 years old. Look at this. That's what I'm saying. I don't do anything. You're not taking any special vitamins for that? You can be honest with us here. You don't see a local colorist? I think some good loving makes for good health. Damn, that's great advice. I mean, who can argue with that? I'm going to fuck the gray out of my beard tonight. That's the first place that it should work. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's really great advice. That's a good tip. Okay, so you – but you feel guilty about eating the meat, but then every time you eat it, you feel – I feel like who gives a fuck. Yeah, yeah, who gives a – I'll fucking kill you right now, bro. You have a problem? Well, that's how they do it in England too, like when you go to the pub and you sort of have a few drinks. You know, even if you get testy with somebody like in an American bar here, it's just like, come on, man. I'm fucking up, man.

It's like a lot of total street brawling, and I'm just like, what is that? Where does that energy come from? Alcohol makes me like when I crawl under a table and snooze. But for some reason, in England, when people drink alcohol, they get... super duper hyper and they just start swinging and they like i don't want to i don't want to i don't want to bring it up again thurston but it's because they're on cocaine and i think that's something that you should you should consider they have not dealt with their repressed emotions the way you clearly have that's some analysis right there but i see i can't say that living here because yeah it could be bad for you yeah i got it bad for you You can't go down to your local to watch the match after saying some shit like that. You know what I mean? You've got to watch your back. Have you embraced football, or are you just watching American football still? Well, I'm very happy that the Eagles beat Miami, and I'm a Miami kind of Miami Heat guy, so I love the basketball team, but I'm a bit of an Eagles. uh football guy american football guy only because i have a nephew who is way into them and so i just i'm loyal to that because of my because of the family thing and it's similar to here where the team that i feel strongest emotionally to is the team that Deb Gouge, the bass player in my group, in My Bloody Valentine, she's hardcore into Man United, Manchester United. Okay. United. Yeah, United. She grew up sitting next to her dad, like, watching United games, and it's just, like, it's big for her. I just watched the, what's his name? Beckham. Beckham documentary on Netflix. It's really good, right? So good. It's really sweet. You really get a sense of just, like, I don't care how much, like, good grace uh is that these people have in their lives he still kind of got his he still kind of got his ass publicly kicked a lot and that you know there's something he said i i got my ass publicly kicked a little and i know what that feels like in a micro community

I don't want to check your pockets, Thurston, but David Beckham is so rich that nothing should hurt his feelings anymore, in my opinion. I think you're doing great, but it could still hurt your feelings a little bit. No amount of money. Yeah, but you're right. He was in the world stage getting lampooned every single day for every single thing. He deserves to cheat on Posh Spice a little bit to let off some of that steam, right? Yeah, yeah. But he was Man U. Watching that really gave me some love for that team. that coach. I love the tough love. I love the tough love of the coach. And now there's the goalkeeper from the early 2000s, Peter Crouch, who's a fellow tall man like you and I. He has a big podcast as well now. I don't know if you've ever heard of him or listened to it. This is news to me. Yeah, check it out. I mean, I've never listened to it either, but it's been fed to me in my algorithm for tall people. I'm more of a Wayne Rooney guy. He's an absolute, you're not a legend. Banging, little player. Banging. But I like this woman, Mary. I think her name is Mary. She's the goalkeeper for the English women's team. They lost to Spain, ultimately. You know, the whole Spanish team thing where like the... The team captains were kind of being kind of untoward with the women after they won. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. He kissed her. Yeah, I remember that. That whole story. But the English team lost, which is too bad because they're kind of great. But I really like the goalkeeper, this woman, Mary. They call her Mary, Queen of Stops. because she could stop any kind of... Wow, that is a very cool street name. That's a very cool street name. That's a good name, Mary Queen of Stops. As soon as I heard that, I was like, I love this team. You're either a goaltender or a bus driver, am I right? Yeah, I still don't think football will ever happen in America, but I think the Beckham doc might have made the most strides. Possibly. More than MLS and the popularity of that. I feel like the Beckham thing made it look sexy. Yeah.

But I don't think there's any future with, like, European English football as we know it. Football as we know it, everywhere else in the world, I don't think it's ever going to. But that's kind of cool in a way. I kind of like that North America is that, like, it's just, like, completely and utterly resistant to something that the rest of the world sort of, like, accepts as, like, very normalized behavior by everybody. It's just like it doesn't fly in the USA. They're like, we're going to play baseball instead, guys. I can tell the metric system is really putting a pin in your ass, huh? Yeah. Well, it's interesting because when I use our system, what is the non-metric system, which is called? Imperial. Imperial. Is it? So there you go. It's called Imperial for a reason, right? Because we're so imperious as a culture. That's not great. That's not great. It's not a good look. But my English musicians in my band, when we're touring around in the van, they were just like, we will never, ever understand how to calculate imperial numbers. I was like, it's easy. It's like, come on. But it's like language. It's like not understanding another language. It's like growing up Japanese and being like. Reading and writing Japanese is easy, guys. What are you talking about? Yeah, no problem. Just learn Russian. It's not that crazy. Or learn Osage. This new Scorsese movie just came out. It's all about the Osage. Can you sit through a three-and-a-half-hour Scorsese movie, Thurston? I did last night. Yeah, we watched it last night. I was a little surprised by it because I expected. I expected something else. It's a very sort of dour film. And there's like, oh, it's Scorsese's masterpiece. You know, it's like this is his ultimate film that he's made. I was like, you know, it's kind of like it's a gangster film, but set in the Wild West. I mean, it's sort of something about it was I didn't mind the length of it because it really sort of it kind of dispels this whole story that is actually kind of really interesting.

it's quite a very still movie in a way. So it's not like a shoot-em-up like a Scorsese gangster movie so much. There's a lot of long pauses and silences. There's something going on there, but I was just a little surprised that it's getting all this critical acclaim as his greatest feat as a filmmaker. I think people want it to be, so therefore it is. I think also because... People want him to, like, save the movies, you know, from Marvel. I think there's a lot of kind of ways of thinking about it. It's an important subject in American history compared to, like, Boston bank robbers and stuff. That's true. Like, dirty cops. This is, you know, some of the most important American history of all time. But, you know, the reason I brought up the Osage, because it's like, The characters in it, the lead character, one of which is Robert De Niro, He actually learns the Osage language and speaks it actually remarkably in the film. Wow. I didn't know he could do that at his big age. Are you sure it was not AI technology doing that? I'm not sure about that. Cannot be sure. I cannot be sure. Now, De Niro, yeah, he's not going to do that. He's going to do the work and he's going to learn the Osage language. The only thing I read about that movie that I liked is that basically like because De Niro is on set, DiCaprio is like the little. bro you know and he's kind of getting like made fun of and shit which is so funny because he's yeah he kind of the caprio character yeah he's definitely kind of um he's a little bit of a the lights are home but nobody's nobody's the lights are on but nobody's home yeah yeah yeah so yeah he kind of gets like slapped around a little bit especially by the osage woman that he and she fought they fall in love with each other spoiler alert i guess it's essentially yeah it's essentially a love story and um but uh

She's like the heart of the movie. She's great. How was the popcorn? Did you put peanut m&m's in it, or did you just go raw? You can't do popcorn here in the UK. What? I'm sorry. I don't know what the problem is, but they have salty, sweet, and mixed. And it's just like, which one is less stale than the other? That's how you have to ask the people. So you're saying it's available for you, but you're saying it's always so bad that you don't pluck down. It's shite. Did you sneak in a bag of crisps under your shirt? I did not. Three and a half hours, you just need a snack. What time was the show time? What time did the film start? 7.15. Okay, so you were smart enough to do a little earlier. Did you fall asleep at any point in the film? I almost fell asleep around the two and a half mark. I almost took a mini-map, but I kind of, yeah, I sort of, you know. Slap myself a little bit. Sure. Do it for Marty. I generally won't fall asleep in films. It has to be pretty. I have to either be really drunk or it has to be really boring, or both. Sure, sure, sure. That diabolical combo of really drunk and boring. Drunk and bored. That'll put anybody to sleep. Speaking of, what's the substance use looking like nowadays in 2023, Thurston? I don't drink. Okay. I don't smoke. I used to smoke cigarettes. I used to drink pint after pint because I liked it, but I can't really do that anymore because my doctors say, don't do that. I was like, okay, I won't do it. Okay, what are the vices nowadays? I've had my fun. Of course, of course. What are the vices then nowadays? My vices? When you can't say a good book. What are my vices? Well. Don't say Discogs. Don't say Discogs. Discogs. Discogs, dude. Yeah, well, I mean, that's pretty much it. Like whatever coin I feel like I have, it's like I'm buying books and records and I shouldn't be doing that because it's like, you know, it's not like I'm like Nick Cave in the Bad Seeds and I'm kind of doing all this big business.

uh no matter where i play well i'm sure your record collection posters vintage t-shirts that you know in in in whatever 20 years from now what are you interested in you're like what are you looking for look i'm a i'm a big i'm a big t-shirt collector and i see are you yeah yeah and i see a lot of the stuff that you've been involved in going for insane prices you know if i had kept all the rock tees i had since late 70s onwards yeah I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you right now. I would be with Britney. I would have finally realized my dreams. You'd be turning Letterman down for a podcast? Well, yeah. Well, how does it make you? I was thinking about that earlier. Like of all the times we've seen, you know, the Sonic Youth t-shirts on Instagram and people are selling them for five, six, seven. You know, Chris, you've seen it for probably over a thousand dollars for some of the classics. And I'm just thinking how many. We make fun of NFTs all the time, but if you really could own some sort of license to the reselling of that original piece, how many millions of dollars have been transacted over the years just in Sonic Youth washing machine T-shirts? You know what I mean? Dude, I wake up in the middle of the night sweating about this because it's like not only do I not have any of those T-shirts, but when I see them online, I realize I designed that t-shirt for God's sakes. It's like, I mean, I have like zero to show for it. Yeah. So yeah, it's a, that's a, I mean, it's kind of cool, but it's like, I wish I did keep everything. In fact, but I had garbage bags full of like rock shirts from the eighties. I had like all these, like the first Nirvana shirts or the first sub pop shirts, everything, you know, laughing hyenas, mud honey, I guess. Cause I was actually really. into always having that stuff and i would wear them i'd sweat through them they would throw them into a garbage bag and i had at some point i know i gave two huge bags away to somebody who had like a bit of a pop-up thing before the whole craze of like t-shirt value and i never and i never saw them again and but it was kind of a gift you can't really indian give you're like by the way

Those two garbage bags with little t-shirts they gave you 20 years ago, do you still got those? I gave you some garbage a while ago. Could I have a bunch of money for that garbage? What size was the garbage I gave you? I'm looking for large. Hopefully there's a reseller listening right now who is feeling guilty. Maybe they'll be in touch with us and we'll send over our Sonic Youth t-shirt to the flat. Oh, you know, it's just stuff. I mean, that's a good way to look at it. That's an enlightened way to look at it. But I think that the market for that stuff is just so crazy because sometimes the band is so obscure that I really rack my brain being like, how many people are willing to pay this price for this shirt? Especially with old hardcore stuff where I'm like... There couldn't have been more than 10,000 people that know what this is. I don't know how this is possible. How many wealthy chain of strength fans are there in this world? Literally. How many people listen to Judge who have... Hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions. $800 for a Judge long-sleeved shirt seems like a very limited group. But, you know, I guess I'm wrong. I guess I'm wrong. The few, the proud. Yes. Yeah, exactly. I kept on my hardcore seven-ishes from, you know, ground zero, day one, you know, 1980, 81 era. That's cool. Really? Because I knew, I just like, because I remember, like, my record collector friends, like, as the years went. buy into like the mid to late 80s it's like they kind of divested those and they were turning it into like you know rent money and something told me it's like this is only this is like wine i mean it's just like it's going up and up and up and up and it's just like and it still does and you know like the japanese market for like first pressing minor threat seven is just like you know yeah thousands you know one two thousand sure yeah you pull out you pull out a chunk ink and suck it you know, test press. Yeah. You're putting your kid through college. Yeah, exactly. So I hold on to that stuff. Okay. You know, but I don't, you know, I just like, but I also like it because I aesthetically like it because I don't really want to get rid of it and turn it into cash because I'm just going to use the cash for, you know.

Cheap thrills. Sure, sure, sure, sure. That's all any of us use cash for, just so you know. That's kind of like what life is about, and then you die. Yeah, kicks. That's all we have. Just a dinner at Dishoom and two for the Osage. Dishoom, baby, yeah. Dishoom on me, guys. Let's go. I just sold my teen idols on green. Yeah, exactly. I just sold my adolescent gold. What was the... Now, I mean, I know that you've been in all of kind of the famous clubs that Jason and I might be a little too young to have visited. But, like, you know, which one sticks with you the most from that era of New York? Like Mud Club, Seabees, like Danceteria, like all of that. Like, what are we looking at? What do you have the best memories? You know, all those are kind of distinct from each other. Yeah. We kind of hung at each one. They all had their own sort of flavor. I personally liked Tier 3, which was also called TR3, but it was downtown on West Broadway, just below Houston Street. And it only existed for a year all through 1979 and into the very early part of 80. That was our clubhouse. And that's kind of the place where myself and Lee Ronaldo and Kim and... People we were associated with just then, as we were sort of getting our thing together, were playing. And the proprietor of Tier 3 was this woman who was bringing in bands from England. So that's where you saw, like in this little room, a tiny little stage, that's where you first saw the Slits or the Raincoats. Or you saw Madness or something like this when they first come to town, the pop group. And that's where they would play. Because even then, I mean, at that time, 1979, those bands were kind of only known to, you know, a certain demographic of people who were buying these seven issues. So, I mean, to remember, and then, you know, it's kind of where the people who became supernova coming out of the art world, music world of New York later on, of which, like, the big three, the big triumvirate would be, like, Keith Haring, Madonna, and...

Jean-Michel Basquiat, like those three people would always be there. But you didn't really think about them being always, I mean, they were just part of our, the gang in that neighborhood. And so it was a very neighborhood-y place. And that was our neighborhood. And they were sort of denizens of that neighborhood. So that was kind of where the hangout was. In fact, Jean-Michel actually painted a mural in the middle of the downstairs club that the stage was on. The bar was just like up on a little split level, small place. And that was our hangout. You know, you'd go there and everybody knew who each other was because everybody did know who each other was at that point. So there was no media eye on like what your scene was at all. The media eye was still kind of on like the bigger names of punk, be it Ramones or Patty or Blondie or whatever. So this scene was kind of more on the margins, you know, of what we were doing. And so. I guess that's the club. That's the one you have the fondest. Yeah, sure. You hold closest. I have the fondest because it's more sort of intimate and familial. And it's cool because it's one that I've never heard of and I don't know if Chris has either. Yeah, me neither. So it makes you look cooler. Yeah. It was only open for two months. You probably never heard of it. So you guys are in L.A. Did you hang out at the Alligator Alley or Crocodile? Well, Chris is from Atlanta originally. I'm from Orange County originally. So Atlanta is like the 588? Yeah, 588. That was a little before my time. Yes, it was in Little Five Points. It was like on the corner. It was like kind of like the famous – it turned into – it's a vintage clothing store now, of course. But I'm sure you've played Atlanta, I mean, over and over and over. There was one place we used to play in Atlanta that was like really like hardcore, tough kind of place. And every time we'd go there, there would always be like – we'd show for soundcheck and these like Atlanta kids would come up to the van and just like, we just want to warn you that the –

that the Atlanta skinheads are coming to create trouble tonight. They're like, oh, great. I guess if you're like a punk band who's been in a van for like 12 hours getting to Atlanta, Georgia, to have that kind of announcement, you can sort of brush it off. But to be like sort of a fae art rock band from Manhattan, and you're just kind of like living on candy bars and cigarettes. I'm sorry, what do you mean skinheads? slap shot coming down yeah yeah that's that is yeah there was a big skinhead there was a big skinhead thing not so much during my heyday which is like 90s like early 2000s but yeah that was definitely part of the the scene for sure yeah i guess like your music back then probably really angered the skinheads and made them really want to well this noise rock is too artistic it certainly polarized them we never we never uh we certainly never got into any kind of beef with skinheads but that would happen particularly as we got below the mason dixon line a lot where would be like there's a there's gonna be a big skinhead gathering tonight and they're gonna they're coming here to like cause trouble and i was like why oh he was like we know we play alternative tunes guitars you know like experimental why are they coming you don't understand my tuning don't beat me up yeah yeah So the thing is, that never happened. But then you would read a scene report or an interview with Henry Rollins or something. It was like, yeah, then we went to Atlanta. They turned over the van and they set it on fire. And then I had to beat 50 fucking skinheads off my back. I was like, really? So this does happen, but it doesn't happen for us. I was kind of like... I kind of want to see it happen. Rollins is a poser. He's lying about that shit. They seem to be having a black flag every gig they play. Tour rules. All right. Thurston, thank you so much for joining us on How Long Gone. It was a pleasure. You know where to find me, man. I'm always here. Yeah, the next time we're in London, we'll come around for a... Please come around. I'll make a nice pot of tea. Okay. That'd be great. Put some mushy peas on or something. We need a warm welcome. You guys got to bring it down a little bit. Come here.

Leave your guns home, okay? Okay, we'll leave her. I'll leave my AK. No promises, brother. No promises. I'll leave my AK in the car here in L.A., and we'll get along great. Yeah, it's been a real treat. This will go into the history books as one of the better episodes of the podcast out of almost 600 now, so much better than Jeff Tweedy. Well done. I'm going to write to Jeff right now and tell him. Dude, don't do that, please. And then the book. The book. We've got to plug the book. Sonic Life is out everywhere where you get books, I assume. Sonic Life, it looks like this. It's an audio-based podcast, but we'll take a look at it. Sonic Life, it is a... For listeners at home, he's holding up the Brian Ferry memoir. He's having a laugh over here. Yeah, it's a beautiful... That Brian Ferry book has a beautiful cover. Oh, there we go. There we go. There's some more Sonic Life. There's some more Sonic Life. Available at Amazon.co.uk. I'm just going to leave it like this. That's great. Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much for taking the time. We're going to pick up the book and everyone else will too. See you soon. Stay free. Bye, guys. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at USAA.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply.