850 - Lucy Dacus

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? I guess we're good. You're good. Good Sunday. uh from me and jason we are together here at the carpenter hotel in austin texas and a good sunday to you as well sir we just we just finished our run club we got some donuts we're heading to church so we just my donut had bacon on it i'm i'm ready to rock my my my tesla truck is charging so things are looking pretty good for this and i'm gonna take the dog for a walk oh yeah my tactical vest wearing dog And also, if you are listening to How Long Gone for the first time because of our guest today, it's not normally what we do on a Monday episode. It's usually just the two of us talking shit. So if you don't want to hear two straight white males bantering about our weekend for 20 minutes, fast forward 17 or so minutes. Don't fast forward. You fucking need this. You need this more than we do. But I think you should sit down and be seated and be sat for this lecture, mama. Be seated. Yeah, Austin, Texas is... One of America's most twisted cities, and I feel like I've been coming here for years, and this incident that happened to me. It's getting better and it's getting worse. The other day, really, I went to the Equinox, and then I went to Sun Life. Sun Life is a smoothie destination, high-end. Yeah. Can be found in high-end malls across America. No, just Los Angeles. I think this is the only one outside of L.A. They opened New York. Real talk. Yeah, there's not a bunch of them. Okay.

So I go there, and it took 30 minutes to get the smoothie. It's popping. So it's on this block on South Congress, I believe, that is Viore, Lululemon, New Balance, Birkenstock, Two Hands, Le Labo, Soho House, and Sun Life. So I go to Sun Life, and I'm like, oh, great. It's one of the best smoothies in the world. This is great. I can get this in Texas. This is perfect post-workout. Somebody pinch me. I'm dreaming. So I sent you this picture, but I'm in line, and I'm behind these four guys that all look exactly the same, and they're wearing a brand of clothing that says N-V-R-F-K-N-Q-U-I-T. never fucking quit never fucking quit and they're all like tatted up they got the garment on they're talking about strava they got mustaches the whole the whole exactly like the archetype of austin guy and then i sat next to them i weighed on their smoothie and listened to them talk and i felt i was like this is the best thing that's ever happened to me like this is i'm getting a window yeah into what these bozos really think like It's like you're a scientist and you're finally watching two albino panda bears mate in captivity. And I was just like, this is crazy. Now I understand what women deal with. This is what their options are. Guys that say they own... Oh, I own a fitness apparel company, actually. No, we're not super focused on influencers. We kind of don't think that works well. That's actually really refreshing, your approach to B2B marketing. But it was like, bro, these guys probably fucking... you know they're running fucking sub five minute miles they got the quad they're great they're in great shape they probably got money they're wearing all the fucking oakley's and the whole shit but i was just like wow this is really when people joke about the run club and austin and the whole thing i'm like oh it really everybody really does have a dog and a new bronco and a mustache this shit is no joke like it's real it's really the stereotype is real

It's really real. Yeah, I heard we were talking to some people yesterday at Levitation Festival. Thank you to everyone that came out and watched this interview, the Armed and Unknown Mortal Orchestra. But somebody was saying, you know, that run club, they will start marathons halfway through and sneak in and they'll like take over all the trails and they'll be like 40 deep taking up the whole trail as if and they're all they're all influencers. I'm assuming. they've all done something bad in their life earlier and this is them repenting for their sins? Or do you think they're just like church going? Noah was saying this. Noah was saying yesterday there's a run club that is known for that. Like they're like the bad boys and they'll take over the trail. I think, and this is maybe just sort of my Southern upbringing influencing how I feel. I think it's all vaguely religious. You know, I think it's a little bit like fellowship vibes. Fellowship vibes. Yes. I'm not saying women aren't allowed. But they want to also rebel a little bit in a controlled manner. What is more rebellious than getting a knee tattoo and being a runner? You know what I mean? You're really saying, fuck you to the man. I have a knee tat. I run. Yeah, I wear a band tee while I'm running. And I also love my four children, Layla, Kayla, Mayla, and Jayla. And my wife used to be hot. I saw a guy that was making fun of shit like this, and he said his wife's name was Anna Bollock. There's a space in between the Anna and the Bollock. That's too fucking good. Yeah, my wife used to be hot is very key to that whole thing. But yeah, it's just an interesting... But then we went to... Anabolic. We went to dinner with Larry and his wife and their friends, and it was nice and normal. And then we went to the club, and it was normal. It's a strange sort of, you know? I guess DJ Python's only going to attract freaks, but that's normal to us is what I'm saying. We had a lot of normal. I mean, I guess that's what Austin has always been to me with South by Southwest and everything like that.

It is normal to us to have a bunch of DJs from LA or New York fly in to play a party. But you were like, oh, we're all just in a place now. And we're just drinking different beers instead of what we normally drink. And we're talking to different looking people than we normally talk to. But, you know, I like it, man. I had a fun time here. I had a pretty good time, too. I'll come back. I had a pretty good time, too. I don't think I'm going to eat barbecue because we ate our Tex-Mex meal last night. Matt's. I've got to say, Matt's came highly recommended, and I don't think as many restaurants as you and I have eaten in together and separately, that might be top three most efficient restaurants I've ever seen. It was Bean or Din Tai Fung. How do you say Din Tai Fung with a Mexican accent? Honestly, that's our Dean. You know, like, I'm such a good code switcher. This one is scrambling my circuits a little bit. I'm sorry, because these are your two favorites. Because I have to stop. Like, normally, you know, it's a three-point turn where I have to go from Chinese, which I'm not going to do, straight into. Then it has to run through my English brain filter and then regurgitate into Espanol. Yeah, I mean, it's not that different, you know, because Thai. No, no, no. Yeah, it's just an enunciation and pronunciation issue. But this restaurant, which is, I guess, a famous Austin, it's clearly been there forever. It was the size of a Walmart, and they were running that shit like the Navy. The food was good. service was unbelievable and we were out of there and you know came out instantly you know it's everything that you want chips unlimited chips and dips and guacs and margaritas and all that shit big old combo plate beans that are all melted to the plate cheese enchiladas all that shit it was very good i felt like we had a i felt like we needed that experience and unfortunately i'm not going to be able to get my cauliflower burnt ends in the body before i hit the uh the delta terminal they might have some cauliflower burnt ends at that airport is the thing i'm sure they got a terry blacks you know station blacks to go like a chili's to go yeah yeah yeah i'm sure they do but you know actually austin might be one of the top airports where people bring

nasty hot food on the plane because there's so much available at the airport. They pick up the slop and root. That airport has been transformed into sort of like a... smorgasbord style terminal. You know what I mean? It was a nice airport terminal. It's just like that you can get your burnt ends. You can get a fucking breakfast taco. You can get a matcha latte. You can get all that shit. You kind of don't ever have to leave the airport. You can just fly into Austin, walk around, blah, blah, blah. What's the record store here? Waterloo? Is it Waterloo? There's like a famous record store. I'm sure you can get all the merch. It's like the sub pop store at the Seattle airport. You can grab your merch without even having to go in. I can get my boy genius. 12 inch. No problemy. It's on. It's on. Never mind. No good. No good. Never fucking quit telling that story. Are you going to edit this? Because I feel like I really should say it to you. I'm not going to edit this. Okay. Then I won't. I won't. I won't then. I'm so sorry. Yeah. We. You know the best part about Austin. There's a lime scooter everywhere. And there's no people around to make fun of you for riding it. And that freedom is very free to have it running through your hair. The wind. They've come in handy as close as we are to the venue. It's totally walkable, but you can cut that in a third if you feel like it. I got to say, we did a festival here called Levitation, which is sort of half metal, half indie, of old and new. So we got to hang out with a lot of pirate-looking bros who might be smelling. It was a different crowd than we're used to, I'll say. I mean, day one on Friday, we interviewed The Armed, which, you know, they were great guys. Love them. I hope to become friends with them. I do, too. I was like, you guys are absolute freaks, and I'm loving every second of it. They were awesome. And normally, Chris Black doesn't vibe well with people who are in avant-garde art collectives, but we all speak the same lingo. When you know what Gorilla Biscuits is...

you know there's there's a bridge sure sure i feel like that was there's there's there's a bridge you stand on that bridge you i can put some pressure on this a little weight on this but yeah that day was like the metal day so there's like gnarly metal bands playing we all know i missed blood incantation unfortunately but it was just dudes in it was a a contest to see who had the gnarliest shirt yeah which i guess is not not not in line with what we normally talk about it was actually I will say that that festival of levitation in general that's the most uh, banned t-shirts per capita I've ever seen in one place. And I'm really sad that my anal cunt hat did not come in from dog London. Cause that would have been a real head turner, but I was probably waiting for me at home. I was saying I outgrew my ass up sleeveless. So I couldn't really, I saw that. I just, but yeah, it was that, that part of it yesterday was less that, you know, it was a little bit less. It was a little less dying fetus and it was a little more dying basis. Yes. In the, in the, so in the the like upstairs like the green room you know it's a shared dying fetus is a band just to be clear i wasn't saying that is good i think most of our listeners we don't know that i'm joking uh the the upstairs like green room area uh everybody kind of had to mingle and you know there's all these guys that looking like they're from fucking space and i was like oh it's brian jonestown massacre they've got like six guitar players and one of them is wearing like bug eye sunglasses bell bottoms and a rayon shirt and then i realized that anton the the goat is sitting next to like i'm sitting next to him and i'm probably sitting next to him for 20 minutes because you're not there yet i've just seen wednesday and i just was zoning out i was just like all right i got a couple hours to kill i'm gonna drink my liquid death and peace up here you know what i mean listen to the guy from black angels play 45s he slid and anton's so good and anton is sitting next to me and i'm like all right i gotta like strike up a conversation with this guy because he's you know and i just

It just was, it did not, it did not, I felt no opportunity. I've never felt so stifled in a situation like that. And then I noticed that he was, he wasn't drinking. He was smoking camel reds, but tearing off. Because I saw this little pile of filters on the table we were sharing. I was like, oh, he's tearing off the filter. Yeah. And just blasting. Ripping off the filter on a camel, which is already a heavy cigarette to begin with. And he's ripping the governor off of that thing. And when you do that, he'll be able to smoke that whole entire gnarly cigarette in like three drags. He smoked three of those in the time I was sitting there. And this was 90 degrees. middle of the afternoon, you know, like three o'clock. But he was hanging out. High sun. His crew was one of the wildest. There's like a guy with a fucking wearing like white leather heeled beetle boots with a cane that had a feather on it and like a top hat. Yeah. These guys are living the life, man. They're like, we're going to die at 53, and that's just, it is what it is. I'm like pretty, I'm all for it. It's admirable that they're some of the last real living, true rock stars, you know? No, totally. It was cool to see. But yeah, I just did not, I had nothing. And I love that you, a person who is a professional interviewer known for the gift of Gab, saw no opening. And then when I finally saddled up next to you, there's this little Asian blogger guy who – Oh, he worked for the festival. I saw all this go down. Oh, okay. He had a camera on a tripod, and he had the little YouTuber microphone on Anton's. He had the Isaac Likes joint clipped up. I was like, Chris can't even get a, hey, man, you guys rule. But this guy's like, so tell me about your – No, I saw him be like, hey, I work at the festival. Can I ask you a few questions? And he was just like – He like grumbled at him. It was really funny. It's really funny to watch an interview like that happen and him not. He looks like he's barely moving his mouth. He also wasn't. There was no smiling, no gesticulating. There was no talk. It was just like, ask me the questions and get the fuck out of here so I can smoke another camel. I hope he's having a fun life and enjoying his time. I don't think he is, but I think that's part of being a tortured artist of that caliber. When does somebody like that have a good time?

It's not on stage. It's on heroin. But if you stop that, there's not... Got it. Got it. That's kind of it. I mean, I don't think he's into kiteboarding. I think it's kind of like, you know, I rock. I mean, maybe he gets pleasure from his cats. I don't know. You know, something like that. He might have a crazy vinyl collection. He might shoot guns. Me? Detroit style pizza. I'm trying to get my fermentation down. I just really love pickles. I pickle. Yeah, I don't know. I've got a pretty big house, so it's easy to kind of jar everything. So we were with Carly from Wednesday, and she's just really one in a million. And she showed us her – she has a dumb phone. that I had never seen before because I was texting her and I was like, why is that shit coming up green? And she's like, because I have this. And it looked like a Tamagotchi. She told me, she said it was like a jellyfish or something like that. It had a name similar to that. It's a $200 Amazon, but it's like full color and you can use like maps and everything, but Instagram. She showed us how Instagram looks and she's like, it's so small that it's not worth it. So you don't want to use it because you can't really see it. The level of serotonin is not there. It's like I'm addicted to eating Doritos and then they give you a box of them with no salt on them. And you're like, oh, well, I don't really want these. But it was a very interesting device. And she also had the... the video camera like the youtuber yeah she was like i've been i've been taking videos every day for 10 years so when i got rid of an iphone i i got this it's the little gimbal it's like a it's a gopro basically you know what i mean but i was just very i was like wow this is a twisted combo but i'm it's interesting that young people especially successful ones are finding these workarounds to sort of keep themselves away from what we assume them to be the only thing they love. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's enough people rebelling. Yeah. She said she collects physical media and cassettes and CDs and DVDs and VHSs. I'm going to go to her house. I need the tour of this house. The amount of shit inside of it, I just can't even imagine what you could find. I mean, I think it's great. I think it's admirable. I'm sure she enjoys listening to that music on cassette more so.

unknown mortal orchestra same thing he did a dj set last night with on cassette decks and i was saying this to you i feel like i'm a person who's from being friends and working with you for so long i feel like i know more about djing than i should then you'd like to know that not even that like just because it's not my thing it's like i but i know a lot about it i feel like that through osmosis you've absorbed exactly exactly i did not know that that was a possibility i mean i never i never considered that to be a possibility so when he was talking about it i was truly like learning i was like you do what bro there's guys way back in the day who would dj and mix on cassettes and real like real to real yeah yeah yeah like the big yeah tapes that you would see but there's There's old Chicago house DJs who would learn how to master playing rock. I guess that makes sense to me because tape was the predominant format. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, sure. It's like vinyl was prominent format, tape was prominent format. And you could get the tape and record someone's record, and then once you have it on cassette, then you could spread it and duplicate it and make as many copies as you want, like a burned CD. And they used to make cassette decks that would have tempo adjusting. Oh, so it was the same. So you could, I mean, very difficult to beat match on cassettes, of course, but it is possible if you're really good. Huh. We got to talk to Mark Ronson about this next week. Yeah, we're going to talk to Mark Johnson about that. She said vinyls, Matt. Let's see what you got with the cassettes. He probably has one or two stories. For sure, for sure. I just didn't know. He's not that old, but he knows. I didn't know. I didn't know. Yeah, congrats to Dave from Provio for getting married. Congrats to Benny Blanco for getting married this weekend. I know. Taylor was going to give me a ride on her plane, but I told her we had Levitation Festival. It was an environmental thing, just to be clear. Yeah, she got the offer, but turned it down. She said, you know what? You know what? Pavement can have it. I'm kind of tired. School of her. We've had a big year. We've had a big year this year. Yeah, a lot of great weddings. I'm happy for everyone. I've got to send Benny some pure beauty. He finally gave me his address. I get a lot of Benny videos on Instagram of him going on these horny cooking videos. No, no, no. He goes on these podcasts, the songwriting podcasts, and he's just like,

plays the demo of diamonds and it's him and sia and it's as good it just sounds exactly it's like insane how good it is and it's just gifted it's fun to watch it's fun to watch shit like that like where it's i would rather watch him talk about music than him like rub a beef tenderloin with mustard like it's a dick i would rather yeah i would rather that for anyone really i think like whipped cream off of a man's nose or something That's Maddie Matheson. That's his friend. And they do weird stuff like that. They do. I also, I want to shout out, I don't know her name, but when we were at the club, we were given these, they're called Angel's Herbal Cigarettes. And the packaging is very cool. It looks exactly like a cigarette box. But there's no nicotine or no tobacco. It's all just herbal blend. Yeah. Tobacco, nicotine-free, additive-free, dried herbs. You haven't smoked one yet, right? No, not yet. Not yet. So I've got herbal cigarettes. How does it smell? It smells like herbs. I know. I'm going to try. It's such an interesting, because when she handed them to me, I was like, what? I got the Angels, I got the Hestias, and I got the Pure Beauties all in my pack right now. You got options. All my Shmokables. I got all my Shmokies in here. Who does your Shmokables? Shmokable program. Okay, well, we have a guest today on the pod, Lucy Dacus. from boy genius and her solo career we had a we talked to her a couple days ago before we left and had a great fun convo she's awesome she is awesome i didn't know about her i didn't know much about i mean i know the music obviously she's been around and successful for a long time but i didn't know a lot about her upbringing which we shared a lot of commonalities which was always fun to get into A couple southern birds. A couple southern birds. But, yeah, thanks, Lucy, for joining us. I hope you guys enjoy the convo. Howlonggone.com is the website. Thank you, Levitation Festival. Also, EatsCon. Oh, EatsCon. Next week. October 4th in New York City, Chris Black, Them Jeans, In Conversation with Alison Roman, live on stage, and then David Chang and Eddie Wong.

And the guy from Anna Jack Tye are going to be up there as well doing their thingy. So everyone should come out. I think tickets are affordable. There's a bunch of food that you can buy. Watch us have a fun pod with Roman. One of the greats. One of the greats. She got a new book. She does have a new book. She's pushing it, saying yes to everything. She's, yeah, she's, she's hit the bottom, you know, and I'll be at level door afterwards for the after party. You will not be there. Nope. Hope to never go there again. How long gone, uh, how long gone.com is the website. Thank us for listening. Austin. Uh, we love you. I'll see you on the trail later. This episode of how long gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do all our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early, and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince.

Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking... Something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, it... How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs.

handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. You want to feel like your head is kind of like helium getting in there? Yeah. To make sure. You want to be able to make sure all the helium gets in that head of yours for a healthy lifestyle. I got to say, hi, Lucy. How are you? I'm Jason. That's Chris. Hi. You appear to be pacing around. Is that your house in L.A. or is that a hotel room? This is a hotel room. I'm in New York. I'm pacing. Just because it's nice. I'll stop if you're bothered. No, no, no. You do whatever you got to do. We're just jealous that we have to be sort of positioned in front of microphones. Yeah. We like that you're pacing. If it affects the audio quality, I will have to give you a little. I respect it. Also, yeah, if there's a balcony, don't go out there if you don't mind. That's the only thing. Oh, I won't. Yeah, I would be maybe too afraid to anyways. We're pretty high up. Oh, don't flex on us. Okay. Yeah, we're pretty high up. Is that a thing? The higher the room, the closer. about or something the higher the room the further away from poor people is usually how the hotel system works in new york that's what that's what they say richard ashcroft told us a story about being at a hotel where they gave him no or Liam's room, Liam Gallagher's room by accident. And he was like, it was the biggest, it was like as big as my house basically, but it was so high up. He was like, I can't go. Liam was like, are you going to come up and meet me? And he's like, well, there's no way for me to come up, mate. I'm on the top floor. You're the uppest you can be. I'm the uppest. I'm the uppest I can be. Are you, are you playing a show in New York or are you just building? Yes. No building. That's funny. I'm playing Forest Hills Tomorrow. I'm honestly freaked out.

Why? I'm scared. I've played there a bunch while I was opening, and I'm headlining a festival. Which festival is it? Is it All Things Go? It's All Things Go. Okay, but I'm sure you have some compatriots on the bill with you to ease your nerves. Yeah, there's definitely people I want to see. Rachel Chinariri is somebody I want to see. I ain't familiar with that, but it sounds like you made up that name, and I like it. Amazing name, amazing music, really great voice. Okay, you're vouching for all three. The trifecta. Chino Riri. Okay. Rachel Chino Riri. Yeah, Chino Riri. Good style. Okay. You're a De Joe fan? I say it like that on purpose. Joe. Joe. I am. Yeah. And we play the same festival in Europe this year. Got to hang out with him and his band. Extremely nice. Yeah, he did this pod like a month or two ago. He's a sweet guy. Just a regular old good bro, you know? You know what's so funny is when people are like, so regular. It's like the implicit. uh other statement is like i expected this person to be weird and bad um well on this on this show we expect people to be weird and bad as much as possible because it's more fun for us but then most times people are pretty friendly and open with us yeah it's not it's not just weird and bad or weird or bad it's more of like you're a child actor with several tens of millions of dollars and fans and you know like It is very difficult and rare for you to be in that situation and be normal, you know? I guess that's real. I guess that maybe is an asterisk on weird. Yeah, for sure. Like that context. I put you in the same category, by the way, Lucy. You're a real down-to-earth chick. Oh, thank you. Well, I'll be down to earth when I go down the elevator. Shut the fuck up. Hey! Sorry. I don't know why I'm acting all comfortable. It'll go 39, 38, 37. It's a long thing. Were you on a Disney or Nickelodeon show that we don't know about? Absolutely not. Okay, I just wanted to make sure. I didn't know when you found your talents. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes people find them young. Nah, unless you count church, which I guess maybe I do. We count church. Which denomination were you forced to be a part of?

I grew up Southern Baptist. Me too. Me too. Welcome home, Queen. Where are you from? I'm from Atlanta. Oh my God. I was just, I played Shaky Knees. I was just in Atlanta. Our only, our marquee and only music festival. Is that true? I feel like Atlanta is the music city. We should have more festivals. There used to be this thing called, I mean, when I was in high school, I saw like Outkast play at this thing called Music Midtown. Oh, right. It was sort of that way. I think that's come back and, you know, kind of fits and starts and it's not really working right now, but. Where are you from? I'm from Richmond, Virginia. And the church I went to, I didn't realize this. If you're properly Southern Baptist, you have to change the pastor every, I'm going to guess, four years. You can check me on that. But we went non-denominational, which I thought was like hip. And like progressive. We welcome everyone type vibe. Yeah, but it was actually so that my pastor could keep his job. Frankly, he was a good pastor. Like I'm not going to talk shit on him. He was very, really smart. Whenever pastors come up, I have this. My dad was on the pastor search committee, which is like the group of people at the church. The job is to locate the next pastor when one leaves or whatever. That's real. They got this guy in. We're looking for him. This guy, Paul Pervis. Paul Pervis. He was a rock star. You know what I mean? Like, good-looking, good-looking family. Really knew how to talk. And, you know, a year in, riding high on the hog, he got busted fucking one of the deacon's wives on a church trip. Oh, my God. Low-key, I think it scarred my dad a little bit because I think it was like, oh, shit, is my picker broken? Did I not see that this guy was capable? Like he's responsible for the sinning. Exactly. He was responsible. And not to mention he had a horrible child at home making his life hell, so it's a combination of issues. Is my picker broken? Were you a Wednesday and Sunday? I was almost every day of the week.

Every day of the week. So we, you know, it's funny you say Wednesday, Sunday. I was Wednesday, Sunday at my church, but my friends had Thursday. They had Tuesday. Sometimes there's a Monday or Friday. There were certainly some Saturdays. You were a church phenom. I thought you were going to say church fiend, and I was going to tell you this. Also, bro, you a fiend for the church. I'm a fiend. Fiend for God. Bro, I've been fiending for Jesus lately. I'm not even going to lie. Okay, so how much of this church? attendance was rooted in music and how much was rooted in your love of christ our savior um i would say 100 both probably even at the time more so for god like music was i think music like my mom's a music teacher both my parents were in the church band i was too like music didn't seem like a separate thing from life like i didn't view it as a interest like tower records music is life Yeah, music is life. Like, yeah, I think eating is like the greatest analog is just like, oh, yeah, I guess I was just born having to do that. And I have to do it every day. Yeah, I guess I got to breathe. So I'll go every day of the week. Why not? Yeah. But yeah, I was very dedicated. And I'm going to be real with y'all. Did y'all see the stuff about the rapture this week? Yeah, almost got us. I thought I could just like laugh with everyone. But there was a part of me that was like, scared. like in my stomach okay okay so you're saying that your your religious upbringing was so strong that the the rapture jokes were hitting a little too close to home and you were maybe feeling a little nervous what what percentage what percentage of genuine fear was inside of your body uh you mean like yesterday and the day before yeah like when the rapture was about to hit was it like 15 chance i'm gonna die 15 sounds right. Okay, 15 sounds good. Not like, oh, it's going to happen. I think it just drew up, like, I used to love the Book of Revelations. And I, as a child, would reread it and be, like, assured, you know, like, oh, I'm going to get there. And I have this distinct memory of being like, the rapture is going to happen before I turn 10. I know it's going to happen because I can't imagine going to middle school. And so I was so sure of this that...

When I had to go back to school shopping for sixth grade, I was like, holy shit, I'm wrong. I can't believe that. I was just buying pencils. I have a whole life ahead of me that I didn't expect. So your ass got a record deal before you got raptured, and you did not expect that to happen. You're like, I don't want this. I did not. No, no, no. I definitely thought the rapture was going to happen before a record deal. I wasn't indoctrinated. It might be the wrong word. I just wasn't a believer. Like I was deep. I never, I was forced to go and it felt when I try to explain to people in, they're not from the South is that Christianity is almost like Judaism in New York. It's like part of the culture. Like it's not necessarily like not everyone is as devout as you're describing, but you still go and you still participate because it's like, quote unquote, the right thing to do. Right. Also what people don't, I think, understand, I don't know if this is how it was in Atlanta, but Christianity was like counterculture. Like me and my friends were like, you know what? We don't care what people think of us. Like it felt punk. Like we'd wake up early and do like prayer circles around the flag. And it was like this special little subgroup. Like it felt like a subculture. So Christianity was a counterculture. Yeah. What was the bigger culture that you guys were countering against? The devil, I guess. The dominant culture is like, you know, Satan. Soundgarden or whatever. Yeah. Same of God. But I would say, you know, in the American South, if everyone is going to church and it's ingrained in everyone's lifestyle, then wouldn't Satan be a little more counterculture? You know, I can't answer that. That's why I'm rocking with the double. No, I see. I know what you mean, though, because it was still like – it's like any other high school. It's like there's sex. There's like I do this, I do that. And at some points, that group that Lucy is talking about, the we go to Chick-fil-A at 7 a.m. and then we pray around a flag.

That was like there would be like hot chicks. So you'd be like, well, maybe this is cool. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. It was high drama. You know, everyone because you're a teenager, too. So everyone's like wrestling with their sexuality. So there's this like. Like, there's this dramatic tension of, like, are you going to fall from grace? Like, or if someone has to repent for their sins, like, it was just really dramatic. Is Chloe going to fall from grace and suck that guy's dick? I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, that's literally what it was like. No, no, we were on the church trip to Whitewater. I swear she got fingered under a jacket. That was literally the vibe. You don't even want to know the shit that goes down at a vacation Bible school. I know so many people who have lost their virginity and repented. within the same day. So let me, let me say this. I'm, I'm a great way to get through life. All of a sudden, all of a sudden it falls into my lap. I, I, I lose my virginity. How do I, do I repent by admitting it to the higher up, like admitting it to God or do I have to admit it to the higher ups too? Do I have to tell my mommy? I could, I could tell you a story. I think you just admit it to God. Okay. I'll keep this kind of brief. There was a youth group where they split up the boys and the girls. And this happened annually. There was kind of like a sex seminar every year, maybe even one that went on for like multiple months. But this pregnant woman sat in front of all the girls and were like, listen, I didn't I waited until I was married. I'm so glad about sex is bad. It feels bad. Never do it. I'm so glad I got pregnant my first time. I'm never doing that again. Oh, wow. You shouldn't be looking forward to this. It feels bad. It's so cool. She just scared everyone. And she was like, she's like, I literally had sex one time. Thank God I'm pregnant. I'm like, and then at the end of that, they were like, if anyone would like to stand and confess their sexual sins and repent. Uh, you can. And there were people, there were girls, like we were all cross-legged on the floor and the girls would stand up and be like, I forgot my boyfriend. And like two weeks ago, I'm really struggling to know if I should say anything. And you know, like, and everyone's crying and like hugging her and like this adult.

obviously insane woman is like you are forgiven you know like what right do you have bitch like you just work here like that's so awful and in her mind she's like when i was jerking my boyfriend off in his truck it seemed like he didn't hate it and it didn't hurt it seemed like he really liked it he told me he really liked it that's a very toxic thing to instill into a young woman's brain that like yeah it feels great for dudes Ladies, not so much. And not you. It's nice to hear this because I think that sometimes I've just forgotten what it was like a little bit. My life is so far from that that I rarely go back there. It was so normal. True love waits, like your dad giving you the ring so you don't have sex. That is weird as hell. I, yeah, this is a podcast. So people are not seeing my facial expressions. I understand, but you're just saying so much stuff. This is not what I expected to talk to you. Hey, we could do this all day. No, I mean, I just, I really don't encounter people that often that, because I think if you're, if you, most kids did it until they found like ecstasy and sex or whatever. And they're like, all right, mom, like, fuck this. And if you're not, then if you don't make it out by 15, 16, 17, sometimes you're a lifer. Yeah. I had a slow fade out. uh when i was like 19 so that even feels like kind of late what was the what was the impetus for the fade out like what what happened that made you question your faith did you discover some literature well actually well in a way kind of i i was one of the high school like i was reading christian murdy alongside the bible and like for a long time like earlier on i shed the like hatred of gay people or sure i even like Reading more about the origins of our idea of hell, like hell isn't even mentioned in the Old Testament. Like it's kind of translated as like a trash fire, which was like an actual trash fire. So it was like metaphorical even at the time. Anyways. An actual trash fire. Yeah, it was called Gehenna. Dude, I went to hell. It was like a literal dumpster fire, you guys. It was saying like you'll be sent to Gehenna, which were the trash.

pile of the town. So it was... I'm going to start calling people. I'm going to start calling people Gehenna. Look at this Gehenna ass over here. Look at this Gehenna ass. There was a hardcore band when I was in high school. There was a hardcore straight edge band called Gehenna. And I was like, I don't know what that word is, but it sounds sick as hell. Are you learning right now? What it means? Yes. That's cool. I did not know that it meant trash fire. I will say that. It was the dump. It was the town dump. I assumed that it was a dark biblical place, but I didn't know we were burning trash like how they do in Europe. Am I right? It's where hell is derived from. If I'm wrong, sorry, but I think I'm right. Don't worry. All of our religious listeners will let us know. I was looking at the All Things Go lineup, and it just reminded me when Jujo was on, he was like, yeah, I'm playing this festival. And I realized I'm the only guy on the entire lineup. What do you think is up with that? And I was like, I think it's because chicks want to fuck you, but let's dig into it. What do you think? Because I was looking at the lineup and it's just cool, sexy, hot ladies playing the show. Yeah, I would say the people who put on this festival expressly are making that effort because if you look at, there's a group called Book More Women where they'll delete every band without women in it. And sometimes there's no bands left. Oh, they'll, like, take the lineup and just be like, let's plug in our algorithm here and we'll take out all this. Just to see, like, how many women have been booked in this festival. And sometimes there are some festivals where there are zero bands left. Or maybe there's two bands in a small font. Actually, that's so crazy. Because I feel like when I look at lineups, I'm only looking. Maybe that's just my personal taste. Yeah. quote-unquote girlies are so big right now it feels like it's sabrina carpenter at the top of everything no matter what yeah but one is one is not yeah not 50 you know i think it's it's great and also i've played this festival before and i think the fan bases the people who book it understand who's going and what they like and they just happen to

like all of these songwriters. I think this started in D.C. Mm-hmm. Merriweather Post Pavilion. Is that venue? Why do people like that venue? Because there's like an Animal Collective record named after it? Or is it because it's actually good? It's legitimately good. And for me, sentimentally, they had Free Fest there. Do you remember this? What is Free Fest? Who's the guy, Virgin Mobile, who's like the mogul rich guy who's kind of crazy? Richard Branson? Yes. He had a festival. The tickets were free. It was a regular. I saw Alabama Shakes and Jack White and... Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. MGMT. Yeah, this one. Here's a lineup. It's... Avett Brothers. Skrillex, Alabama Shakes, Future Islands, Nas, ZZ Top, Santo Gold, Jack White, M83. Yes. All over the place. I saw like 60% of the people you just said. ZZ Top was incredible, I have to say. They do little... That touch coordination. Yeah, I mean. But it was free. And me and my friends would all sit on our computers and, like, refresh, refresh, see how many we could get. It was just, I think, for him to, like, throw this big party. There was one year he stood at the top of the amphitheater and, like, poured champagne on all the things. You know, Richard Branson, for all of the billionaire talk we have in today's world, Branson, I think. maybe got out unscathed. I think he's still rich and not canceled. Am I wrong? I'm not up to speed. I don't think he's canceled. I know he has a private island. Yeah, he has an island. That's famously. Post-Epstein island ownership gets a little murky in the billionaire space. I would say island ownership by one guy. is always murky hey hey hey would you if you had the opportunity to purchase an island would you be interested in having your own piece of property like that i'd probably do it as like i'm gonna get made fun of like a co-op situation i feel like okay all right relax i'm about to come kill the land to stay there is that what you're saying well i mean

I feel like I should stop. I'm I am interested in doing like land back stuff in this lifetime. So I think if I were to do that, I would like entrust it to the indigenous people that are meant to be sorting that land. You're saying you're saying let me just give this back to the OGs because this ain't really mine anyway. Yeah. Yeah. If I get the chance in this lifetime to do that. I'll be so pleased. That's a personal, that's a goal I've literally never heard anyone say before. So I'm pretty, I'm compelled by this, but it is going to cost a lot of money. You're a custodian of earth. I think that's great. I mean, you could start small. I could picture you. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, you go ahead. Okay. I could picture you owning a small Scottish island with a cottage on it. Just bringing a guitar and a. a couple bottles of rosé and just seeing what happens, you know. And then when you're done, give it back to the Scottish people, of course. Charge them a small rent, you know, property tax. I'm going to choose that this is a compliment instead of... She's like, I'm not really talking about the Scottish people having their land stolen, but I guess that works too. I haven't, like, closer talked about it, but I did get to do a land back project last year where there's this woman in Mexico whose land was taken. when she was a child and she's like in her seventies or eighties now has always wanted to have her like ancestral homes back. And my friend told me about it and I was able to help her buy back the land. And now they send me videos and they're like building, um, and all the traditional methods like this sweat huts. And, um, it's like hopefully going to be like a artist residency for some people. So I don't know. I'm, I'm, That's amazing. Be in earnest. I feel like y'all are fun and funny. We do both. No, but that's actually, no, no, that's crazy because I didn't know, I guess I just don't, like how do you get that call, I guess, because someone knew you were interested so they got in touch with you when the time came? Yeah, I have a friend, my friend Aaron, who is just indigenous and really tapped in with people's needs and has hit me up before and whenever I'm able.

I try to answer those calls and at my tours and at boy genius tours, we've had locally like indigenous folks come on stage and like, you welcome the territories and say what's up locally. Cause there's a lot of like active issues all the time. I think people think like, Oh, that like happened so long ago. It's like irrelevant, but. There are constantly things. Well, you know, a lot of bad things happened a long time ago. That's so true. That's sort of how it goes. It doesn't make it less bad because it happened a long time ago. It sounds like you're spending your money in a beautiful way, you know, and I would love to go down and. It would be cool if there were areas all over Mexico and they had you painted as a Virgin Mary who's saved the land, you know what I mean? Oh, my God. I can't think of something more problematic. That would be nice. Camino Decos? Oh, my God. It's so crazy. I can't think of anything. She's like, there's a fan that has a tattoo like that of me, but I've never seen it on a wall, you know, in this case. You know what? There is a fan that has a tattoo like that. No. Eyes on their thigh. Yeah. What's funny about your face getting tattooed on someone is like, not only is the artist going to get it right, maybe, maybe not, and then people's body changes. Especially the thighs. You change too. Thighs be changing. Thighs be changing. Something like that, how do you see it for the first time? At a show, somebody comes up and flashes the quad tat to you? Well, the first time, not my face, but the first fan tattoo was this owl with some lyrics under it. That was in 2016 when I was still selling my own merch and talking to everybody. I'm sorry you had to go through that. It is unadvisable. Inadvisable? Inadvisable. But both in this case, fuck it. I mean, either works. You know what I'm saying. Sometimes you gots to. Sometimes you gots to. But that was a really wild day because I was like, this is going to matter to this person forever. I felt this responsibility, like, I better not suck in the future because this person cannot regret this tattoo. You know, I...

Look, I have a Smith's tattoo and it's totally fine. You know what I mean? Like I can't, you have to know your past. Yeah. It's all, I think that's like part of the, you still have time to fuck up, but you're on the right path. So they're, they're fine for now. Yeah. Fine for now. Such as the body in and of itself. But you're saying that you, so you've seen, you've seen several tatties over the years then. Yeah. I think that's maybe just the type of, fan i have which is kind of nice that people are like really listening and like moved enough to do that so i'm not complaining and i'm not making fun no no that that's i expect your fans to be like that there's there's people out there who have like tattoos of djs and shit and you are making real music you change my life yeah you do make your music how many people scream out your music saved me in between songs you know what i mean how many times does that i would say Enough that it's crazy. Sure. You're like, more than I'm comfortable with, but if that's their truth, that's their truth. It's like, I can't really, they know what they mean. Like, I can't even begin to really know what they mean. Also, like, this is a weird person to bring into the space, but you know Youngblood? I saw him telling a fan. I saw a... This is a weird person to bring into this space. Really cool way to warm up young blood into the conversation. That was poetic. I knew that was going to be unexpected from my mouth, but I saw him, like a fan was like, you saved my life. And he was like, no, you saved your life. Oh, he gave it. No, man, you saved your life, man. Exactly. He took his shirt off and he was like, you saved your life. No, you saved your life. You did that. You did that, babes. I can get it. Like, I can watch a few clips and be like, all right, yeah, I get it. But that guy being embraced by, like, the old guard of, like, metal as, like, this is our guy. Like, is shocking to me, kind of, because he's so clearly corny. But I guess he's also a child actor, so he is, like, hamming it up. Is he? Yeah, he was on TV when he was. He was on.

Nickelodeon or Disney, no joke. He's not like some rough and tumble guy from Manchester or anything. Interesting. He was on a Disney Channel series called The Lodge and a long-running British soap opera called Emmerdale. Okay. What's his real name, Jason? Please tell me something good. His real name is Dominic Harrison. Oh, that's a fine. Yeah, that's normal. Damn. I was hoping for something a little more fucked up. Dominic is a hot guy name. My basis name is Dominic. I feel like there's a lot of hot Dominics in the world. Yeah. I'm going over to Dom's house. Don't wait up. Yeah. Dom. Come on. I'm hard. Dom called me. Dom. Yeah. He texted me at two. I still went over there. Fucking Dom. You know how it is. Yeah. Wait, I have a question. Yeah, please. This is going to be, I just mean to ask this before this is over. This will be weird if the answer is no. Chris, do you take photos? Yeah, yeah, I do. Hell yeah. I just bought your photo book. Wait, where? Idea? At Agony Books in Richmond, Virginia. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. I saw it. I was like, Chris Black, Chris Black, who is that? And I thought it was someone I did house shows with in, like, 2016. Well, unfortunately, I'm a little old. We could have done a house show together, but it would have been in 99, and you probably weren't. What was your band? I was in a band called One Step Closer, but I lived in a house that had shows. So, like, I was at a house show literally every night by default. Same. You know? Wow. You probably wouldn't have come through Richmond and played my house. It had a little life before me. My house had a life before me, too. They sort of got passed down for a period. Yes. Do you still go to Richmond? Do you live in Richmond? No. I was just there. I played a hometown show, and I had never been to that store. It's by Jesse Feynman, I think his name is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's great. He does pomegranate press. Yeah. My photographer, Ashley Gelman, is in the other room. She loves the store and I had never been somehow. I guess I missed it while I was living there, which is really weird because I was studying this photo. You're like, I really should have known about this. I really should have known. They should have been telling people about it. I find Richmond really charming. I know they're affordable compared to New York or LA.

beautiful um but i don't know if i could live in richmond virginia you know i think i could if i didn't grow up there it is an awesome place there's good food the river's awesome it's walkable so you're saying you still you still you're like i need to go because i spent i did it but like i see the charm i see the charm i feel the pull i think if everyone if nobody cared who i was it's really just um i just feel like oversized or something or yeah for sure Like kind of a place where people can put either their resentments or aggrandizement and both are uncomfortable. Yeah. I mean, if you grew up somewhere. Yeah, I guess you are like a star of Richmond. So when you come into town, all the. I mean, the baristas start going low, though, right? The baristas. She ain't paid for a coffee in a decade at least, I'm sure. I don't drink coffee, so that's true. You're like, I don't drink coffee because the baristas were just too aggressive with me. I had to stop going in there. Whoever is giving you your tea ceremony is losing their shit, I should say. Yeah. No, but I think that's a real thing because if you grow up somewhere and you have some success, then it's the people that discovered you and like your music, but it's also. the people you went to high school with and the people that your parents are friends with. And this becomes a much bigger circle of people that want a piece. Also in smaller towns, I think, and southern towns, I don't know if you feel this, but there's sort of this connection between leaving the town and having a moral failing. Like, oh, you're not sticking by your people. Or people that stay don't maybe understand or want. to leave like yeah so just feeling a little misunderstood but not across the board I love the idea of you you of all people getting called Hollywood when you go back to Richmond you know what I mean well well well you should see me in LA I'm not leaving my house I'm walking my dog I am like I'm living the most pastorally because like living in show houses I've lived with like six to eight people my whole life

And now my life is so quiet, and I'm just sitting in my yard. Like, I kind of feel like I'm in the country living in L.A. Well, where in L.A. do you live? I live in Glendale. You don't have to dox yourself if you don't want to. Yeah, I was like, I'm not telling you. But I live probably within a 20-minute drive of you in some direction. I mean, I'm assuming it's not West Hollywood. I'm assuming. I'm not going to guess. I would pay money for me to run into you at Erewhon and WeHo on like a Tuesday morning. Oh, Lucy, what's up? What are you doing here? Crazy. I'm going to tell you something about Erewhon. They have one thing that I really like, so I do go there. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian. stateside with kai and carter this is covering a lot of our bases jason it's a it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Hi, Talk House Network listeners. It's your old friend, Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer, and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston, South Carolina.

Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready. Because Quakers coming in hot with morning nutrition, 100% whole grain oats, and a good source of fiber. to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kickstart your day. And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker, official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26. Of course you do. We're all a victim. What's the one thing you really like? It's a cashew cardamom almond butter. Oh. And it... It keeps me happy. This sounds like a $27 item, first and foremost. It is probably somewhere between $16 and $20. Okay, $16 and $20. Cashew cardamom butter. Where is your favorite place to slather this butter? On a banana, on some toast, on, let's say, banana toast. It's a great base for my banana toast. Yeah, it's really good. Ice cream? If you get just a really good vanilla ice cream and a really good nut butter of any kind, that's the best ice cream. Mix it up. Are you dairy-free? No, I am not. This is a great podcast. Are you? I don't mean to overstep, but I hear cashew butter and Erewhon, and I know that it's like cashew butter, like peanut butter, but it could also be like cashew cream, like actual butter replacement, you know what I mean? Oh, I see, I see, I see. I mean, I'll go there. Were you vegan at some point? I was vegetarian for a while, but I was actually having some vocal issues, and I went to a vocal coach, and they were like, you need red meat, and I was like, eh.

And then I also went to the doctor and they're like, you need red meat. Everyone has told me there's something about me and my health that I need it. So I'm back in. Jason, what's your one thing at Erewhon? Pizza? Pepperoni pizza. Slice of pepperoni pizza is the only real value at Erewhon where it's like I spent. the correct amount of money and receive the correct amount of food for that price. It's rare to get that at Erewhon. The avocado roll. That's not what I'm going there for, but I respect it. Avocado roll. The avocado roll is high value because it's like 20 pieces or something. Okay. I'm a value slut, so I'm always hunting for that kind of stuff. Me too. I see the hard-boiled eggs for 18. I'm like, okay, that's not worth it. Ew. You can do that at home. I'm exaggerating, but you can get a little plastic thing of three hard-boiled eggs, and it costs more than a dozen eggs. If I get three vegetables in a... Takeout container. This is no joke. It's literally $30. That's not an exaggeration at all. I like it because I know that's what I'm going. I'm paying to watch the people. The food is secondary. I'm there for the culture is what I'm trying to say. I'm there for the specific little drinks that I can only get there and the sputter. What's your issue with coffee? I just couldn't afford it growing up. I was like, every day people spend money on this? Like, no. No, no, no. Same for, like, cigarettes. Damn, so you've never even done cocaine. That's crazy. I have never done cocaine. I'll tell you that. You've never done cocaine. Too broke to smoke? I've never done coke. Wow. I'm too broke to smoke. No, I want to just say I have zero fucking interest in that, having seen people on coke from the outside enough. See, here's the thing about coke, Lucy. When you see other people on it, It's not cool, but when you're on it and then you're with those other people and they're on it, it's very cool. Here's the thing. I'm going to save a few things for when I'm bored, and that's one of them. But currently, I feel like you should always have a few things on deck that you're going to do instead of kill yourself. And I think that that isn't really good. Honestly, great advice. Honestly, great advice. That's great advice.

I need to think about that. You're like, I'm really feeling down. Get an eight ball. And you're like, I'm back, baby. I have someone really close to me. And I'm not going to say who because he'll be embarrassed. But he's like 65. And he did coke recently for the first time. That is very cool. I'm so proud of your dad. That is so cool that he did that. That's really brave of him. Yeah. And what did this person have to say about it? It came up because we were talking and I was like, do you know that I do do mushrooms occasionally? Somehow, Lucy, that doesn't surprise me. Okay, I'm also going to choose to take that as a compliment instead of a diss. Yeah, and then instead of acknowledging what I said, he was like, I did Coke recently. A little tit for tat. I'm cool too. He was out at a bar with some younger friends. I guess there's plenty of that in Richmond, Virginia. Richmond's a big Coke. Atlanta and Richmond are both big Coke cities. Never too late to start a great habit. That's inspiring, honestly. I think that's very cool to be like, you know what? I've done what I need to do. It's my time now. Yeah. I'm going to choose to do what I want. Yeah. Like when people get their first tattoo in their sixties as well. Yeah. That is always like, wow, life will continue to delight and surprise. Or maybe, maybe have like a gay summer in their sixties. You know what I mean? Just. Yeah. Yeah. That's, yeah. That's also more like, Hey, I'm going to start eating red meat in my sixties. Why not? Lucy, when you're in L.A., do you have any restaurants that you really love? There's some that I just don't want other people to go to. Sure. Actually, you know what? Why don't you just say all of them and Jason will bleep them out. We bleep out stuff all the time. I'll say the ones that everyone already knows, like Night Market.

It was great. Night Market, yeah. And those are all over the city. I really like Giusta in Santa Monica, or Venice, I guess. Okay. Have you been there? Another classic? Oh, of course. Another classic? Yeah. Delicious. What the hell else? Oh, Angel's Tacos. Those are all over the city. Angel's Tacos? Like the cart. Where is it? Have you been to that? Mm-hmm. All over, but it's like outside grocery stores usually. Oh, sure. And there's long lines, but they're pastor. It's cool. shave it off the spit, then they cut a pineapple at the top and they catch it like three feet down and it's always, they make the tortillas in front of you. There's a performance element. There's a performance element. I had some tacos de pastor just last night for dinner. It was on Rowena and Hyperion right by the Pinkberry and the Silver Lake Trader Joe's. There's a good little pastor spot there as well. That Pinkberry's still open, right? Somehow, Pinkberry, we were parked, we were eating food in our car just in the parking lot. Steady stream of people going in and out of Pinkberry in 2025. Beautiful to see. Beautiful. Pinkberry is good. That tart flavor, you just can't get anywhere else. That's what my wife said yesterday. She's like, nobody does tart like Pinkberry. It is what it is. They closed them. I don't think there's any left in New York, but I also feel like 16 handles is still around. Is this the embedded podcast ad? for no no no we would we would we would cut we would break you off we would break you off use the promo code lucy at checkout on doordash if you're using lucy we're gonna take you out we're gonna take you out for a funny we need to take we need to take lucy somewhere funny in like beverly hills get her out of her comfort zone i want to take lucy out to some korean barbecue and get some red meat injections going yeah i mean i'm there i have a friend who's been to like every restaurant in korea town and i'm waiting for her to Give me the tour. How much of your time? When you're off the road, you said you're a homebody or you like to hit Cabo and lay in the sun? I am almost never home, so I do like to be at my house. I like to walk a lot. I don't know. I'll go out when people ask. I feel like whenever I need to socialize, I need to do it immediately. Whenever I need to be alone, I need that immediately.

So it's, that's been really easy to do in LA. Are you a Virgo? I'm a Taurus. Are you a Virgo? Both Virgos. Yeah. We're both Virgos. Wow. Do you guys have like color coded stuff in your house? I'm not that kind of, I'm not. Color coded. No. Yeah. Like freaky. I know what you mean. Like organized. Oh, but you're a photographer. Like you have like an aesthetic. organizational sense. I'm very concerned that everything be exactly how I want it to be, if that's what you mean. And that sometimes causes a problem for my loved ones. And I'm that way with audio editing. My dad is a Virgo and a graphic designer and super particular. Your parents now think it's cool what you're doing. Oh, yeah. I think they've always thought it was cool. They just didn't think it could be a job. And I also didn't think it could be a job. I didn't realize it was a job until it was paying my rent. Yeah. It was just what I was doing. I didn't realize this was a job until I was making a living income from it. Was there a moment where you bought your dad a truck or something like that? Not to southern you. No. Actually, what did I do where I was like, this worked? I mean, you can get him tickets to shows, probably. Oh, 100%. I mean, I'm supposed to introduce him. to Bruce Springsteen someday. That is what he wants, and that is what I want. That's the most dad shit of all time. Do you know Bruce Springsteen? We did meet, and he called me on my birthday this year. Wow. So you're saying you get a call, an unknown number. Did you let it go to voicemail, or did you answer? Unknown. Can I tell you this? Cold FaceTime. unknown number so sick so and i did not pick up yeah of course not i was like no way i'm in bed yeah you're in bed stoned watching netflix hunting wives unknown facetime i throw the phone across the room i'm like i'm 30 yeah i yeah i said no but then he set a video and then i got dressed really fast and called him back um that's amazing so you're saying you met you met bruce you met bruce brunstein one time

But he's obviously he appreciates your music. He's maybe a fan. So for your birthday, he wanted to just kind of call and wish you the best. We met once. Yeah. In person. And then you're being a little cagey here. Do you guys hook up or something? It feels weird. I just don't. I don't know. He's been married for a long time. So just level with us. It's just one of, you know, I don't try to be all talking. I don't know. I know that it is very interesting. It is an awkward subject to navigate. Don't worry. Like, just other people's names. But it did happen, and it is crazy. But Phoebe, my friend, who is in Boy Genius, was like, Bruce, it's Lucy's birthday. You should call. And he did. And he was like, I've been listening to your record all day. Like, here are my four favorite songs. And he, like, said my lyrics back to me. Crazy. That's amazing. He's the best. I really like when people like that recognize the power that they have and then distribute it accordingly. He knows that calling you, even though it's genuine, he just knows what it means. He's not in denial of what it means for him to do that. No, it takes real comfort in yourself and confidence and generosity. I just feel like he's got a lot of traits that I admire. i mean i've been he's my dad's favorite artist so i grew up listening to him and i i don't know if like i have music without his music so again i'm being earnest on the funny no no no that's the architect you can talk about here's a question when you're facetiming the god do we do a screenshot i did not do a screenshot She didn't need to. He sent the video. So she's got it in the files at that point. I do. I do have that. Your self-control and restraint is otherworldly. I would be snapping that shit. I mean, here I am not drinking coffee or doing cocaine. That's true. You have a lot of... Self-restraint. You have too much restraint. Well, what do you... Because he plays... That actually might be true. You did a Taylor Swift tour, right? A Taylor Swift tour? Is that right? Yeah, didn't you? No, Phoebe did. But me and Julian came on for...

two of the shows to do a few songs oh that's okay i just i was just like these three hour sets man i feel like bruce is the og of that everybody's doing it yeah and i don't need it i don't need three hours from anybody they're both machines the thing is like the time flies if you're a real artist you know they they can do it because no one's getting tired because they are keeping the energy up i went to a bruce show with my dad and like my dad psychically knew like before for like the first chord he knew what song it was every single time and that's who you're next to and that's who's in front of you and behind you and so it's like yeah this uh you float on that it's so impressive that's funny that happened to me that happened to me with one of my friends when i took him to see depeche mode and then by the before the before the encore i was like bro i gotta go i'm i'm i'm like i'm happy i'm happy that you're so excited i mean we saw oasis i didn't want to leave i mean I feel that I leave everything a little early. I just can't help myself. I can't stay till the bitter end. I'm too much of an efficiency freak. I have to get out of there. I can't line up. That's why he doesn't stick around for dessert at the restaurant either. The Killers are one of my favorite bands and I could hear every song every night and I'll leave. I could take three hours of The Killers. When we talk about Bruce Worship. Yeah, School of Bruce. The Killers. I sang with them recently. What song? At a festival. Read My Mind. Read My Mind. Wow, that's big. Yeah, I know. It was at Oceaga in Montreal. Did you do a good job? Or did you blow it? Yeah, I did. I hope I did. I sing a lot more quiet than him. I think they, like, and I was nervous. Because it's like, I felt like I won like a sweepstakes or something. Like when they bring a little kid on to play guitar with Blink-182 or something like that? And like, she actually rocks! 100%. Who I also saw this week, they played, they played Shaky Knees. Were they good? Blink was amazing. Like, Travis Barker is...

A circus. Like watching him play drums. It's a nitro circus. And you're not even talking about his personal life. You're saying on the drum set. No, just the drum set. Solely the set that I saw. We were in the little side stage when you're up a level. So it's a bird's eye view of that. He's cooking. He was born to do it. Yeah, that's true. The craziest thing about Travis Barker is that he has a run club and he wears vans to run. That's my favorite thing. That's my favorite. It's so insane to wear vans to run that I'm like, you're built different, man. You're another. No, I think it's cool. Absolutely. What do you think's going on with everybody bringing out someone to do a song? Like that's something basically like every show you go to now that happens. And if it doesn't happen, I feel like there's a Wall Street Journal story about it this week, actually. But I feel like sometimes. People are, like, disappointed if, like, it's a New York or L.A. show and someone doesn't come out, you know? Gee, I hope that's not the case tomorrow. Who do you have? Yeah, I was going to say, just who do you have lined up? This is coming out Monday, so. But you haven't created a precedence for it, like a role model or, you know, the Apple dance. Yeah. I actually, I have a duet that this tour, I've been asking people, like, we played Asheville and Moses Sumney came out. Oh, not that bitch. I'm sure he said. He took his shirt off and sang his ass off. No, he had a shirt on. It wasn't because frankly, I've never seen him with his shirt on. That's crazy. He is like truly the most beautiful person to have walked this earth and chiseled. That's the thing is you think he'd just be serious, but, um, he's a total delight and like true artist and somehow straight. He still claims to be. I didn't know that. You're like, if I would have known that, I would have asked him to come out. What the fuck? I would never ask anyone to come out. No one should come out. Everyone should stay in the closet. On stage. I'm just kidding. Enough of us are out. We're good. Stop. Just shut up, dude. Just expressly, I'm kidding. I'm making a joke. Of course. You got the song with our boy Hozier. Yeah.

Is he your boy too? Are you boys with everyone? I'm actually, we're actually friends with Moses. Hozier, no, but Hozier was a kind of classic episode of How Long Gone because we leaked his song and it was an accident and then the record label. On purpose? No, and then the record label after like a half hour was like, actually, fuck it. It's like working. So you guys, it's fine. Okay. Yeah, it became, it's by far our biggest episode, most downloads of all time. Because at the end, his new song at the time, they sent me his whole record. And I just chose a song to put on the outro. And it happened to be his next big single. And the label's like, take it down, take it down. And then 30 minutes later, they're like, actually, it's blowing up on TikTok. Let's just let it ride. And then it became a huge thing. But he's a sweet guy. Really charming, really nice. Just a really good guy. He's another one. Did you know him or did you just reach out? I knew him. He came and sang, I guess. You asked, why is everyone having a guest? I would say because it's fun. Yeah. And because music is really fun to do. And it's also a jolt. Like, when you're doing your own... I'm scared whenever I'm singing on someone else's set, but that also, like, that fear is very important because if you don't do anything risky, like, the time will fly. Like, you just lose track of your whole life, you know? But... He sang with us with Boy Genius in Boston. And then we just like kept in touch texting. And I wrote the song not originally as a duet. And I was like, the meaning of this will be so much better if two people are walking away from a relationship with love in their hearts, but still know it's wrong. Like that. It's more prescriptive if one person... That's my shit, girl. Let me get the split deal. Let's lock this up. Let's lock this in. Have my people call your people. Send me the track. Absolutely. I like it. Look, I love it. I just think it's funny. I'm also always really impressed. But it is a thing, isn't it? I wonder if there... I think that probably most things are people who come to it genuinely and there's people who come to it disingenuously.

Well, my dream of being role model Sally for the night has not been achieved yet. I think you just put it out there. I think it's all rooted in TikTok. I think it's all clip culture. No, I think it's about getting a clip, for sure. But I think it's also, like you said, Lucy, it's fun for the musicians. Because it's like, this is cool. Yeah, I find it just extremely fun. But you saying that clip culture, it is interesting that people treat a tour like a TV show. Since it's being filmed, usually the show is exactly the same every night because it's new to the people who are watching it, whereas now it's like, oh, no new plot point. Yeah, maybe people are needing something new in the next episode. I don't know if I like that, but it would make sense to me. No, I mean, it makes your job a lot harder. I mean, like Sabrina Carpenter, she has to change her lyrics for like the one song to be about every city every time. She has to do a new slutty dance every city. She has to wear a new – you can't repeat outfits. You know, it's a whole thing. Patriarchy strikes again. True. But I think it is like people are talking about clip culture and podcasts about how people feel like – I don't need to listen to a whole hour-long podcast. I saw the clip on Instagram, and I feel like I'm satiated for that. I don't need to go see Camila Cabello because I've seen her show night after night on Twitter or whatever, and that's bad for sales. It is bad for sales. I can tell it's fun. I guess I'm always just really impressed when someone is like, I learned this song yesterday. Or today. two hours ago. Yeah. And now I'm going to go out in front of X thousands of people and just absolutely fucking destroy it. Yeah. I'm always just like, this is, I, I just not in my turn to be earnest. I'm just always so impressed by that, that it like, I can't believe people are capable. I, cause I'm not. So it's really hard to like wrap my head around it. But those same people would be like, I can't off the cuff, uh, have a conversation.

and interview people. So to each their own. Sure. Sure. And I, we, we look, we appreciate that charity from you, but, um, I, you know, I don't think this podcast has saved anyone's life. We all have our own. You've probably made people feel that lonely. We all have different brands of autism. You know what I mean? I bet. I think it's probably true. I don't know if there's any, I don't think there's any, how long gone tattoos out there. If there are, please do not reveal them, but you know, do not reveal them with that. I'm good. I'm good. No, no. I just think that would be really, imagine somebody getting a, I mean, there's probably a Joe Rogan tattoo for sure. Somewhere. Oh, yeah. You know. Thousands. Somewhere. Somewhere. There's got to be. If you get a How Long Gone tattoo, I'll give you a free sticker. I bet there's a Terry Gross tattoo, too. Just to be, just on the converse, you know, just to show both sides. Just This American Life knuckle, knuckle tattoo. There's definitely a This American Life tattoo somewhere out there. I would get a Bob Boylan tattoo. NPR music, Bob Boylan. You got to, look, we talked about this controversial, I don't, the tiny desk, they're letting anybody go up there. You know what I mean? It's starting to get, I get the press releases and I get the press releases and I'm like, who the fuck is this? It's like every 10th one, I know the artist, you know? Yeah. They're doing that on purpose, I think. I think they're legitimately saying no to people that you think would be an obvious yes. I think it's whatever they're doing, it's on purpose. Oh, I see. I mean, that does make sense. I just don't, I just. It's tiny does. It ain't tiny. You don't think it's because we're in a never ending content cycle and we ran out of the right bands to do this years ago? No. Okay. I'm just saying no. I believe, no, I believe, I actually, I believe you. I think it could be, I think it's big enough also. I think it's big enough where at this point people probably watch it. There's enough people that watch it no matter who's on it. I think I'm going to guess, and like, I'm not affiliated to them at all. Like I'm guessing they don't just want to be a part of people's like.

regular album cycle like i think they still want it to be a place where people are like discovered i'm trying to think of i'm trying to think of the best one because it hasn't been good in a long time i'm trying to think of the best one bad bunny bad bunny of the recent ones the bad bunny tiny desk made me love music i was like i need to say more queen that's nice to hear because bad bunny does the opposite for me so i want to know why I don't get it at all. You should watch The Tiny Desk. That's why I challenge you to watch this. You sound like a preacher now. Do you like the music of Bad Bunny? Do you like the music of Bad Bunny? Yes, I do. I like Bad Bunny. So you're saying you're driving to the reservoir on your Range Rover listening to Bad Bunny. I am not doing that, but I'm in my kitchen. Okay, so I'm saying you listen to Bad Bunny. You listen to it for the musical. It's so fun. So you're in the kitchen. You got your hair tied up. You're cooking the plantains. Hey, Siri, play Bad Bunny on my sonos. I'm definitely not using a little fucking accent like that, but... Little accent. You've got to roll off that. It's hard to talk about Bad Bunny and not talk like Bad Bunny. It's just one of my issues that I'm dealing with. Okay, well, I will challenge you again. Challenge accepted, Mama. Challenge accepted. You make me a better person, Lucy. I'll try to watch it if I can make it through. No, it's amazing. I guess there's... I don't speak Spanish, so it also puts me in a different... When I listen to music where I am not understanding the lyrics, I'm just paying attention to the music more. His band, seeing them... Shredders? They're shredders, but with such ease. I'm like, nobody here has anxiety. Every person I'm looking at has never taken an SSRI. This is... right gorgeous like this just feel it just feels like um what do you like about bad bunny no one in his band is on prozac it's unbelievable i've never seen anything like it everyone came out of the womb just in the pocket yeah i mean who knows i don't know them but that performance i was like like everyone here

is happy i mean i think the goal i mean looking making it look effortless and fun is obviously the coolest thing you can do as a musician that's what that's what you want out of anyone that's the whole point tell me it's not cool like you're on tour in between philly and dc and you got to do hey we got stop everything we have to go record and learn practice how to do all these songs in a new way and then go in a hot studio and an npr like It's a situation that's not fun and exciting. People are having their lunch. Boy Genius, our NPR tiny desk, we flew from New York in the morning on a layover, a two-stop layover, did the tiny desk, and then went back to the airport and flew to, I think, Toronto. Again, had to rearrange all the music. That's some SNL. Did you do SNL? Yes, we did. I've heard these great stories about how they keep you on the hook. And then they're like, all right. And they tell you when you get it and you basically have to reroute your entire tour to make it work. Yeah. It's, it's very, very last minute. And they expect you to have like production ready. Luckily. Oh, like you have to show up ready to rock. You have to, and have an idea that you've already been like a few steps into executing when it comes to production. Hey, just so you know, if, if, you know. you might get this. So go ahead and start ideating on what the vibe and look of the stage is going to be. And we'll let you know. It's very IRS energy. I don't know how much money do you owe us? Do you think though? I mean, I wonder if I still think it can move the needle to some extent, but as a musician, it's also just sort of like a rite of passage. It's important. It would be for me. Yeah. I, I think like I didn't. I don't know. I've been it's been I have zero goals, which has really worked out for me because a lot of cool stuff has happened. And I'm kind of superstitious that if I had a goal, I would put all my energy into that instead of whatever else is cool. Yeah. So it wasn't a goal. But doing it, I was like, I see why this is so important to people. It's so like it's a machine, like the way that they execute it. I was super impressed with everyone. Like it felt like.

Tech week. I don't know if you've ever done theater, but it felt like permanent tech week. Hey, first of all, you know we haven't done theater. Don't say that. Hey, some people have done theater. Some people have. You're right. Point, counterpoint. Point, counterpoint. You know, you were a youth. Sometimes you're made to. I mean, the Christian theater. That's true. There's a crossover there. You could have been in Peter Pan. All right. Definitely. All right. They're telling us you got to go. We could do this all day. Thank you, Lucy. Okay. Well. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for podcasting with us. We had a fun time talking. Thank you for taking the time. And thank you for buying Chris's book. Thank you. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, we didn't even talk about that. It's awesome. Yeah, thank you. That's amazing. What a small world. What a small world. Cool. Adios. Bye. I thought I meant it. I thought you meant it. But it wasn't honest.