873. - Paul Needham

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? It is Chris Black. in London. It is Them Jeans in Los Angeles. What's really good, baby? Just drinking my cowboy colostrum coffee, reading my GQ newsletter penned by you. You know, haven't had a good night's sleep in a week. It's not good. I had my first one last night, and I still had a sinking spell at 2 p.m., so how good was it, you know? Yeah, I did get a little nap in yesterday, actually, while I was doing my Hyper ice legs on the couch. Oh, those will lull you to sleep, man. That pressure. It's like being in the womb. From the waist down, of course. Shorty waist down. Shorty in the womb from the waist down. Yeah, I'm just reading your goat. Oscar winner Kevin Spacey says he is now homeless. Yeah, but he's living in Airbnbs and hotels, which is, I mean, to me, that's a lot of creators. Diplo's homeless by the same logic. He didn't say what cars he has. He kind of left out some major stuff, I feel like, in that point he's making. I will say, Kevin, you should have done what you are good at, which is acting, generational actor.

You've probably played many roles in and outside of the courtroom. Represent yourself for all of your sexual harassment cases. Don't blow your millions on these fucking lawyers. He's off. He got off. But Hollywood still won't touch him in the 10-foot pole. He was cleared on all charges, at least in the UK. I know, but I'm saying the reason why he's claiming to be homeless is because he had millions of dollars worth of legal fees, right? I mean, I'm sure. Obviously, he has a cost of living that he was not able to. maintain after his revenue stream was cut off because of his wrongdoings, you know? Yeah, but I think that he's, I mean, singing standards in Cyprus for real estate developers. I mean, look, dude, that's a bad way. Singing standards in Cyprus. But is that a bad, is that a worse, is that a worse way to make money than podcasting? I don't, you know what I mean? Like, I don't, I'm not going to judge another man. It depends on the pod. Look, if he, if he goes the Dear Media route, if he goes the Barstool route, then yeah, it's worse than singing standards in Cyprus. You know, it's like, it could be, it could be worse. I mean, I guess living in an Airbnb is, is bad unless you're David. You know, they should have, like for all the, all the right wing MAGA, true crime. paranormal activity, UFO shit, just hire Spacey to do all the voiceover. How good would it be if you're listening to a true crime pod, but it's gifted orator Kevin Spacey reading all of the copy? If you're willing to get past his voice. He literally played the president well for whatever, five years or something. That's a little bag right there. Unfortunately, because of his wrongdoings the bag is not what it once was he'll have to you know he'll get 1500 for the little wondery shit but you know it's better than sleeping on the bus stop he's got a two bedroom by the there's a breeze there's a breeze yeah um i was just reading your your subsac story um you wrote in your in your gq newsletter you you talked about you were on the on a podcast a few months ago and you you were mentioning

You know, the downfalls and what of Substack and what you didn't like about it. And it got a little viral because you were, you know, saying something that was inflammatory or upsetting to a lot of people. And this one, you're kind of explaining your case a little bit more. But then is that making people less upset? Oh, you've explained everything. No, I've already. No, don't worry. Substack PR has already reached out to me to say that I got it wrong about the employees. It's only one employee and I need to correct it, which fine. But I don't think that's really what the sticking point is on this. You know what I'm saying? But no, I've already I've heard from I've heard from some enemies of the show. Let's say that I. am not doing my job right when my job is to give my opinion, um, which is a tough, you know, I'm not in the trenches. I'm not part of the, um, traveling press group for the president of the United States. I type from a laptop wherever I am about whatever I want. And if you don't like that, I respect it. And please unlike an unsubscribe, I'm fine. I'm fine with losing this person particularly because I don't know what the, uh, I don't know what the point is. I don't, I don't, I whatever, but it's, it's, I just don't understand why. I mean, Cho made a good point. I said Google Chat GBT. He was like, it's more Twitter or Tumblr, which is fair. But imagine someone fighting for you because they love Tumblr so much and how funny that would be. Imagine how funny that would be if somebody was like, you don't understand what Tumblr does. You don't understand. You'd laugh at them. You'd laugh at them. And you're like, you shouldn't see the accounts I follow on Tumblr. I'm pretty sure I know exactly how to use this shit pretty well, bro. but i just don't know why i guess i just don't know why people feel it's interesting what people choose to feel passionate about when it's just hold on one second sorry yeah it's hard to understand why people feel more passionate about some of these things than others and maybe it's because they earn money off of one and the other one is just entertainment i think that that is one of them for sure and i think that when i really want to upset somebody i will i will say something where like if you look into it

You realize that you're quietly being insulted. You know what I mean? That's not what I'm trying to do, though. I know. I know that's not what you're trying to do. It's like when people know, like, this is the way I do things. I'm a writer. I believe in journalistic integrity. There's a category of people on the Internet who write, and it's people who are like, I don't know what my life or my job is. I used to love doing book reports in school, so that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to write a story about a thing, but instead of writing about what I think about it, I'm going to tell you the entire history and etymology of this subject, and then hopefully I'll get a good grade from my fake teacher boss at the whatever. So when you don't do that and you don't fit into those guidelines, it's very much the similar way. When everyone started being like, I'm a freelance creative versus I work in the office, and then people are like, why do you work in an office? That's weird. And other people are like, if I don't have this fundamental system that's been in place for decades or centuries, I have a panic attack. And if somebody is able to find success, you know, just like, oh, why don't you just take this line instead? And you're like, what do you mean? What do you mean? This is the line that we all wait in. You know, it's just like when you we're going to talk to our guests in a few minutes when you're waiting in line at Teresi or get a pizza at Ceres or something like that. And somebody's like, oh, I already ordered it online. I just pick it up right here in this line. What do you mean? What do you mean you could do that? I think this could be, I want this to go, I wonder if this is, I mean, I don't think that the way the people who were on Elon's dick and thought Tesla was revolutionary and now are embarrassed that they ever bought the car, that should be a lesson to us. That these things, you can't ride that hard for these corporations. It's not, they don't care, like it's just not that serious for them. Why is it so serious for you? I mean, them allowing you to make income is cool.

But there's other ways – I just – as I say in the story, there's other ways to do that. Like you could pay a developer $3,000 and have your own form of payment system. You know what I mean? Like I'm not saying that's the best way to do it or the easiest way to do it. Look, we all don't have Alice in Rome in advance money, okay? No, of course not. Of course not. But I just – I find it all – You've got to spend money and make money. It's all – whatever, man. This is the last time I'll ever talk about Substack. I saw it five times in one day about different things, and I was like, okay, I got to say something. I'll never talk about it again. I don't care. Go make your money on Substack. Go use notes like it's Twitter even though it's lamer. Do whatever you want. It's not a shot at you. It's just an observation. It's just an observation on the platform. That's all. I think when – another thing I've noticed when – When I talk negatively about, you know, digital community building and, you know, people talking about their position in the creative culture or whatever, I think when you take people who don't really have an actual community and don't really have any culture and then they're able to tie, they're able to take something like Substack or Tumblr or Twitter and say, like, this is my... This Discord server about how women are mean to me is my community, and it's also their culture. Not even when you attack it and say it's dumb, but just say that that isn't real. It gets people really upset. It's just like, this is my AI robot wife. And then someone's just like, oh, that's a piece of plastic. It's not a real... I guess it is. Yes, it is. And then they're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Their world crumbles. I just don't. I don't know. I did not. I don't know. I didn't think this would elicit. I knew, like, when I said that on Semaphore, I knew they were going to, you know, they pulled it out and made it a thing, which is fine. You know exactly what you're doing. But, I mean, that's their job. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the job of any, you know, if you have a podcast. If we're going to get this cracker on this pod, he better say some shit that gets clipped up or else we're not going to bring him back.

He better say something inflammatory about an online community or we're going to – But look, if he doesn't come for Discord, he better say free Kevin Spacey or what. He better say something that's going to – good click or bad click. Before – we got a few things to cover. We might have to – because I was late, I apologize. I had the time wrong in my head. So if we're going to – We're going to make Paul wait five minutes, I think, because we got Addison Rae at the airport with a blindfold on. We got Dua Lipa in a bathing suit in Rio de Janeiro. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on now. I saw the craziest table maybe I've ever seen in a restaurant last night at the River Cafe. Oh. It just goes on and on. Tell me about this table. I went to River Cafe last night with Camille, her husband Francois, Julia, and Kareem. And we're sitting there and I'm like, oh, shit, Jarvis Cocker just walked in. I'm like, oh, that's cool. He's with his wife. Okay. Then Tilda Swinton walks in. Then Wes Anderson and Noah Baumbach walk in together. And they all sit together. And then David Cameron leaves. It was just a crazy, crazy. Wednesday night. It was more than I was bargaining for. But I was like, it's cool that all these people hang out together. David Cameron, like the former prime minister of the United Kingdom, was there as well? The former PM, yes, the former PM. Which, of course, I didn't recognize him. A British person told me that. I had the same thing. I went to go see Robin, powered by Spotify and Acme. It was a... I was in a balcony, not in a table full of A-list celebs. It was just me and all of Los Angeles' best and brightest gay guys. I mean, that sounds about right. And I have one more quick before we talk to Paul, because this is on a food subject, and I want him to weigh in eventually as well. But Plum's friend hosted a dinner at her house that I went to. Plum Sykes. Plum Sykes, friend of the show. And I was sitting next to... my friend Tallulah, and then to her right was Richard E. Grant, the actor. And Richard E. Grant is a character. He was a great dinner guest, but they served this black cod miso. It was delicious. And Richard reaches into his pocket. I thought he was getting like a handkerchief. And he pulls out a Union Jack bag full of Maldon sea salt and salts his own fish.

and then proceeds to squeeze the lime on the fish. And Jason, I've never seen this before in my life. He ate the lime, rhymed on, swallowed it. Have you ever seen that or heard of that? I mean, I've seen a couple people bring their own. Yeah, bring your own stuff. Maldon makes a little tin. It looks like a little kind of metal matchbox, and you could do a little sprinkle. Haven't seen the Union Jack Coke bag full of Maldon. I guess I've seen some homeless guys eat a whole lime, but not famed character actor Richard E. Grant. It was so cool because I couldn't even say. After I called him out on the salt, I couldn't call him out on the lime. You know what I mean? He could have a touch of scurvy. He looks great. I have to say, he looks great for his age. The meal was delicious, but I was taken aback. um by his his ravenous appetite that didn't stop at citrus he's gonna come on the show he's gonna come on the show okay all right let's talk to let's talk to our buddy paul jason i think it's time we've left him waiting for a whole three minutes yeah it's okay our man paul needham he's a ceo of infatuation a website that people use to find food and things like that we did some events with him and we have become friends and he's a cool guy and we're we're we have a powerful successful business mind on the pod and we're just going to talk about cinnamon rolls and bullshit like that for an hour so let's give him a jingle oh this is huge for me personally this episode of how i'm gone is brought to you by task rabbit oh baby let me tell you something this is this is not a joke i use task rabbit a lot because i can't do anything you need you need some art hang hung task rabbit you need you need a you need a fucking something put together a cabinet gotta reach reach that cheese grater on the top shelf task rabbit anything anything you need TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs.

handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from the Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated.

but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Yeah, Paul is a great business mind. Why do people wait in line at Don Angie? Can you tell me that, Paul? First, I caught the last few minutes of the boys bantering. And if you'd had me on Chris and Jason, both knowing who David Cameron was. 24 hours ago. I don't know where I would have been on that, so kudos. Well, to be fair, Paul, I didn't know him by face. I knew him by name. Because I looked right at him when he was walking out and did not know who he was. And Jason's got the PM language. We're ready to go on British politics here. I don't want to do that. When you say PM language, what do you mean by that? That's how little I know about this. Just calling the Prime Minister the PM. I think you're there. I think Downing Street's ready for Christmas. Jason. Don't let me get my abbreviation bag. He usually says BM, but PM worked in this case, so he felt confident using that. I consider River Cafe to be one of the great rooms in the world. There's something about the color, the furniture, those dishes lined up on that kind of high bar. I agree. The pizza oven that's bigger than any Italian pizzeria I've ever been to, but they just make like 11 asparagus flatbreads a day. A pizza. But for some reason need a Boeing 747 sized pizza oven. I just love it because it's annoying as fuck to get to. So annoying to get to. Bit of a chore. If you bring it up to any British person, aristocrat,

fucking dazed intern like what whoever it is the only thing they can say about it besides it's so good is it's so expensive they say it's expensive they say it's expensive first these are people that have the money i'm not i'm not with people there that don't okay what's what's the american version of that is that like honestly i think evan funky gets a similar people like to talk about how expensive his pastas are also yeah and i think ruthie and evan are both in the kind of like We're willing to really throw a jab at you on our pasta prices. And my hat's off for her. The restaurant's full. She was there last night, too, in all her glory. Charge what you can charge. Can I give you an infatuation tip, Chris? Please. On how to do River Cafe? Please. On your way to the airport. Lunch at River. It's like you're on your way to Heathrow. You're almost there. I like this idea. You don't know me well enough, Paul. I'm on the plane well before lunch hour, no matter where I go. You're joking. Yeah, you must be joking. The next time you're on a red eye or something. I do the same thing for Nobu Malibu. You do Lunch at River Cafe. They've got a bag check. They literally have a bag check for them. Yeah, I saw a guy had a bag check the other night. Chris is saying he hasn't been to an airport before lunchtime in probably 12 years. He's on the 4 a.m. out every day. I take the earliest flight possible, so lunch. Maybe after I land, it would be a problem. Because you're worried about delays? Or just you like to get the day going? Yes. Both. I think it is the best time to prevent issues because the day hasn't happened. You know, not enough has happened to cause problems yet, I guess, is what I like to say. I got it. But I think sometimes it's getting to the point where it could make me feel physically bad, you know, and I still do it. Like, I know I get home at midnight and I have to get up at 4, and the whole day is a wash, even if the flight's two hours. But also, Chris is one of those guys where the hotel... where you know hotel check-in time is 3 p.m typically sometimes you can get lucky chris just always whenever he shows up to a hotel the room is ready for him no that's not so i'll be like we we've we've i woke up at 3 15 after a show and now we flew to denver the hotel check-in time is 3 p.m we've arrived at 9 52 a.m and now we can just sit in this lobby for four hours or i could have slept you know what i mean but chris when he's solo

Oh, the room was ready for me. What do you know? I'm trying to think of the last time the room wasn't ready. I'm dead serious. It just always works for you. For me, it's like a 50-50 coin toss if I'm going to get the rumor. I got to London. I came to the Zetter. I checked in at 11 a.m. It was ready to go. What about you, Paul? What's your luck? What's your luck on early check-in? I like transportation logistics as just a theme for you guys. That's all we have. Paul, you listen. You know. You know about our logistics. You know about our flight tracking. If this isn't sponsored by Delta One. I don't know who's writing the checks. Well, Delta One's not sniffing around. Amex isn't sniffing around. So that's kind of why we had you on. We're willing to discuss the Chase Sapphire flip-flop program. You have more friends in those high-level advertising spaces than we're able to have ourselves, I think. All right. I'll get working. I'll get working. First, you teed me up on Don Angie, and you didn't even know you were doing that. But we have held tables at Don Angie. for Chase Sapphire Reserve customers. So open up your open table, Mr. Black, and get in there, and you'll see these sapphire-colored icons in the app. And you definitely don't need to be at 4 o'clock on a Saturday standing across from the Equinox Greenwich Village. I have eaten there before. I've eaten there once, and it was good. Okay, let's say I don't have a Chase Sapphire Reserve card. How about that? Look, people! Can I just text you and get one of the J.P. Morgan tables that are held? Yeah, they get the whole back corner. The line thing is, I mean, we all saw Meadow Lane last week. Bro, Jason, well, hold on. I don't know if Jason did because that's like, so this guy has opened another, yet again, a fake Erwan in Tribeca. And there was, like, how many, Paul, that line was long. So I was reporting live from the outskirts of the line. Paul, you make too much money to do that, bro. I was there with the people. He was doing some freelance reporting for the Tribeca Citizen. It's a local ride. Thank you. Thank you. Pam Frederick, who runs the Tribeca Citizen, by the way, has the best job in America. She walks up and down the streets of Tribeca with this, like, legal-sized notepad.

just writing down story ideas and things she wants to do. What a dream. Meadow Lane is wannabe Erwan, Greenwich, and Harrison. And I don't totally understand the TikTok obsession with it, but the whole, like, when will it open? When will Con Ed turn their gas on? Like, this has been a storyline. Yeah, it became like a viral storyline. Because it's also, is it just some rich guy? Like, who is the guy? It's definitely very rich. The interiors are unbelievable. Sophie Cohen, who's the owner of the Mets' daughter, did the art. I know Sophie. I like her. Yeah, she's good people, and this is a very high-end gourmet grocer. Do you hear what you just said? curated the art at a grocery store. That's why I'm calling it out. I just want to be clear. We're at a point now where that's what's happening. That's what we have to do to charge $55 for a... Great selection of winter squash, but I hated the interiors and the uploading was unflattering. My favorite was the $11 Driscoll's berries. Can't get them anywhere else. Organic at least, I hope. Organic. Green tin. Driscoll's. Smells like broken here. Oh, we're still putting up Keith Herrings? Okay, I guess the Driscolls are going to sit in the... Well, the thing that's interesting to me that you mentioned is people are following along. We're talking about Tribeca in New York City, an expensive neighborhood in the most expensive city on planet Earth. Chris is in London, all right? Show your respect. But we're in a very dense urban area filled with tens of thousands of sources of food. Of all price points, and this is like a grocery store that's going in, and people are reporting on when Con Ed is turning the gas on, and I heard rumors about the hard hat walkthrough, and we're pulling permits and all this stuff. Do you think people are cosplaying as like those who are in need of real food? You know what I mean? Like it's part of the fun and the drama, or are people's lives that pathetic? I mean, if you're asking, like, do people need better things to do, I guess I'm at a yes.

The answer is yes. It feels like people are cosplaying as like waiting in a bread line for their sustenance when these are people who have more money than us. It's a viral, it's like a stupid Dumois style viral thing because the guy kept chronicling the issues himself. Like he was going selfie mode being like this is what's happening and like posting on TikTok every day. Like me and my wife quit our jobs and we started a bean and cheese burrito business and follow along for all of our... Our wins and pitfalls. Am I wrong, Paul? Isn't that kind of what happened? No, that is what happened in terms of him. I think in terms of the people standing on line, and I actually was standing on. We had Britt, who's our social media, and Willa, who's one of our New York writers. We had them stand on the line. Infatuation, we always show up anonymously. We don't take PR reservations or freebies. We pay for everything ourselves. So they stood on line on day one. They dropped $250 on. Prepared foods, the matcha, the whole thing. So the matcha was $1.95, and they were able to get another couple Driscolls. Yeah, they got a Rockies banana foam latte and a slice of pepperoni, and off we go for $2.50. Luckily, the chase doesn't get declined. You know, it's all good. And what I will tell you is day one, who was online with them was all influencer. It was all just people who wanted to ride the wave of the content and wanted to put out their own meddling content. A lot of sweatshirts that said park with an E, I imagine. I think, you know, three, four days in, because I've been walking by, I've been checking out the scene. What? Knowing that I'm coming on how long gone. Like, definitely now it's just normal people who are like, what the hell is this? And the line's gotten a lot shorter. Since I don't like Happier Grocer because it sells magazines and shit. Like, I don't need, I like want it to be, like, they have a great selection of stuff. Like, it's also, I think some of these stores, part of the offering, and what's interesting about Happier Grocer is that you can get stuff, that you've only seen on the internet. You can actually try something you've never seen before, and I think that's part of the proposition. But at this place, how was the stuff? How was the prepared food? How does it compare to Erwan, the fucking pinnacle? We thought the pastries were good, like genuinely good. They did like their matchas, just so you know. Were you having bad boy pastries, though, or just a classic croissant? I just had the croissant. Okay, I was hoping for like a pistachio. I think they tried out some more stuff.

The highlight, and I don't know if we got Ohio State listeners, but, you know, it's the Ohio State University. It's the chicken salad. Okay, wait, wait, wait. The highlight is definitely the chicken salad, which was really good. Okay, all right. It's like $11 for a kind of small plastic tray of it. It wasn't like the craziest price I've ever seen. And it had some nice horseradish. And I know Jason wants those food notes. He loves the sting of a horseradish. That's one thing about him. It had some notes of horseradish. And we did not like the chopped salad, which is called the L.A. Chop. and needs to go to La Scala and take a lesson in chopped salad living. Period. Go to Beverly Hills, loser. But honestly, I think Rigger Hill is the winner of the Happier Grocer, Rigger Hill, Meadow Lane kind of triangle. But I want to know if Meadow Lane is, I assume the offering is more robust than Rigger Hill. Much bigger than Rigger Hill. The inside is nicer. But I think Rigger Hill... Hearing all the names of these places together in the same sentence just cracks me up. It sounds like I'm watching a horse race. The amount of times I've been dragged to Rigger Hill by my... I'm like, I can't, Alex, I can't do this. Like, I can't, I hate this place. Even though it's good as hell. The product is really good. That chocolate chip cookie is one for the record book. Okay, really quick, we'll move on. What is the correlation between... A chicken salad and Ohio State University. It's the Ohio State University, and people are crazy about it. You have to say the Ohio State University, and it's the chicken salad. Everywhere I met Elaine, all of a sudden, it's the chicken salad. Got it, got it, got it, got it. When they announce where an NFL player went to college, they'll be like, oh, University of Georgia, University of Texas, the Ohio State. That's how they say it. And they're incredibly annoying about it. I want to go back to transportation logistics because my highlight of the year on transportation logistics is I'm leaving LA lunchtime, and I'm checking out Waymo. This is like April or something, so Waymo LA. Everyone's super excited. Early days. Early mover, of course, in the space. Trying to take Waymo to LAX, they won't do it. They don't get on the highway, right? Now they do, but they do it then, and they don't go to the airport. I Waymoed to the In-N-Out next to LAX.

had a burger, had a shake, and then walked into the airport. Which, like, arriving at LAX on foot is an experience. Dude, that's actually very cool. So you're hoofing it with the Rimowa up the freeway on-ramp to get into the arrivals or departure? I got the Briggs and Riley, Jason. I'm not at your guys' levels. He's a real wasp, Jason. He's a real wasp. He doesn't have that. He doesn't have our little play play. I'm traveling with luggage you can't even pronounce, Jason. The real question to me, Paul, is you're willing to get on a six-hour flight with a belly full of In-N-Out. That seems – having a milkshake before flying is crazier to me than walking to LAX from the In-N-Out. I'm not, like, thoughtful about what I eat when. I don't know if I should be. My wife is very – my wife likes to, like, eat dinner early and, like, the digestion. You know, she's – It's all about that. It doesn't occur to me. I'm like, I had Kraft Mac and she's at like 930 the other night. I'm not mindful about my intake. You're telling me that a woman cares about digestion? I don't know if I believe you. I've never heard any of them talk about that. Okay, so a follow-up. Have you heard there's this app called Uber where the car, it's a person driving it and not an AI, but it'll take you right to the curb and you don't have to walk on. So you think I should have Ubered from In-N-Out? I think you should Uber from your hotel and they just take you right there. No, I wanted the Waymo experience. Paul, how far was the walk from fucking animal style to LAX? It was longer than I thought it was going to be. Big airport. You did feel like you were kind of in the end of the world. A lot of jet fuel going on in the world. The other question I have, and this is something that's very particular to me, did you break a sweat? No, I didn't break a sweat. I don't remember what the weather was, but it wasn't like, it wasn't like the sun was gleaming down. Like tomorrow, I will take the Elizabeth line from Clerkenwell to Heathrow and it's 40 minutes instead of an hour and 15 minutes in the car. And the Elizabeth line makes you feel good about the world. It makes you think like we can do things. We can do this. But I just mean that if it was the middle of the summer.

That 12-minute walk to the train station, I can't do that. Because I show up sweating. And then I'm an eight-hour flight or whatever. I can't. Eight-hour flight with the soggy Bottega? Exactly. I can't take off my Bottega leather jacket. It's woven, of course. It gets so hot, but it's part of the look. The Chrome Hearts boxer briefs get a little musty. My leather Chrome Hearts boxer briefs, if you believe me, they get a little musty. Okay, Paul, what's the in-and-out order? Heads want to know. Honestly, I just do a double cheeseburger, ketchup, fries, black and white shake. And I always get a kick out of when you order a black and white shake at In-N-Out, they call it. Hey, let's not make this about race, bro. I don't want to do that. Like, it's just a milkshake. I think everyone deserves a milkshake, but go ahead, Paul. They either order a vanilla milkshake and add chocolate or they order a chocolate milkshake and add vanilla, but they can't press the button black and white shit. They don't have that button. I never really thought of that philosophically. He wanted me to say animal style on lettuce. Give me a break. Play the hits, Jason. Play the hits. But what you're saying about the milkshake then, that is what we in the business would call a little hack. That's not... Everybody doesn't know that you're saying black and white is for the heads on Reddit. Or is this something that's like publicly, I think you can walk up and order a black and white shake, but they're not, they're not equipped to just smash that button. I don't know if it's up on that menu above. Definitely vanilla chocolate strawberry up there. It's not on the menu that you can do a combo of them. It'll just be vanilla chocolate strawberry. I've never really eaten it in and out because they don't have a veggie burger, and a grilled cheese to me is for children. But my question is, what do you think makes it so good? Jason's our real food snob on the call. I would say for me. But I've heard Jason talk about it for 10 years. For me, it's the fries. For me, it's that the fries, you know, they're freshly made in-house. They feel kind of like a little more held together. I don't know if it's like that they were cut not that long ago, and so it's a little more rigid. I like the salt. And then the burger, like, I think it's a little thin, but that bun's really good. And you put two of the patties on, and I think you're there.

I think in and out also to me, it's just like as a New Yorker visiting California, obviously, you're not quite joining the rest of us. But I think it's like just you have to do it when you're in L.A. I think that's actually what they're what's incredible about their business model is that feeling that you just described. And that is almost universal to a certain type of person. Well, I think you were talking about it earlier about. elevated small luxuries and I think that a double double animal style fries well done and a black and white that's you know you could reach culinary mouth nirvana for you know nine bucks as the crow flies and in a time where nine bucks doesn't get you the bathroom key at McDonald's you know what I mean totally and we so we have infatuation folks all over the country and in London And what's interesting, at the end of the year, they kind of write different trends and themes that they're seeing. And that theme of kind of like small luxuries, retail therapy is so in all of the markets. And I don't know, Chris, if you made it to Corner Shop 180 in London, but that place opened this summer. I haven't. I'm very aware of it. I'm very aware of it. I mean, if I have to hear more about freshly churned buttermilk, I don't know about you guys, but that's what they're lining up for. That's because they still ride horses to work. So it's kind of, I mean, it makes sense. I think that, but Corner Shop 180, which looks amazing and was started by someone who has good, you know, she has good taste. She has a brand, you know, it's clear what you're going to get. That's also just another. erwan-esque or is it it's probably i would say it's more comparable to meadow lane it feels definitely like london's answer to erwan all of these things are some places answer to erwan and they're each going to have a local flavor and yeah i think corner shop 180 is great i also just think this phenomenon of like same with you know the really luxury pizza and people like series what they're charging and the complexity of like

put your name down, come back at this time, get your pie. Christie's, which is one of our best new restaurants in New York, incredible pizza. You know, tell yourself a few years ago that a cheese pie is, you know, 36 bucks or whatever. It's definitely not everyone's going to Cove and doing the tasting menu. and getting the drink pairing, you know, the juice pairing like Chris Black. But I think people want to have these luxuries in their lives. And if it's a smaller price point, but still feels like, oh, these are really high quality ingredients. This is a place that has a great vibe. People are down to spend on that. I mean, I'm like that, too. Like, I mean, I like that, too. Everybody likes it. I just I just this stranglehold that has on us as a society is kind of crazy. You know that like I like people that that are. People are choosing to spend their money on stuff like that instead of stuff that maybe seems more maybe necessary is a word I would use. Or the treat culture has gone far. Yeah. Seattle for me was the peak when I was reading through all the trends and kind of things people were pointing to from the year. We got an $11 iced matcha with a dollop of banana pudding that's spooned from a glass casserole dish. And that's the... To me, that's like peak matcha. Okay. And maybe we can move on to something else next. No, no, no. We shan't. Well, on this specific subject, I was watching you on the Squawk Box last week. Let's go. Talking about some of these similar things and talking about the elevated small luxuries and you were explaining it and the woman on there, I don't remember what her name was, but she said, so the logic is I can't afford a vacation, so we'll buy an $11 matcha with banana pudding on top. And I think is that the root of this problem? Is that why we all need a tiny little $[redacted address] home from work or else our life is truly pure shit? Not to bring it down. I don't know that I'd go that far. I mean, I think definitely one thing we've seen this year. So a lot of people use this infatuation as they're planning trips and they're looking around not just for where they live, but where they're visiting.

So the people that don't DM Jason, they use the infatuation. Okay, got it, got it. I've been sending them over to your website. Come on, all right? If you're in Jason's DMs, just come to us. Sorry, guys. But we've definitely seen, you know, road trips, people wanting to go in the vicinity of where they live. Maybe not the two-week kind of Ischia operation, but get out, do the Pacific Coast Highway, go up to the Catskills. hit the lakes around Chicago like we've definitely seen that road trip phenomenon lesbian cafe bang bang road trip up in Hudson Valley yeah love that the Ojai like man what a story on Ojai were we talking about Ojai 10 years ago I think so I mean I famously have never been to Ojai, and it's gone on long enough. And that's by choice? It's a little bit by choice. That's like you're sticking to it? Well, before I was just like, why go there when I can go to Palm Springs? What is it exactly, I think is the question that many people have asked. And then as I got older, like my wife, Carolyn, who knows me very well, she was like, I've been to Ojai. You're not going to like it. Just don't bother kind of thing. And now that it's grown in popularity. There's like, oh, now we have a new restaurant and the chef is from Little Doms. And it's basically like we're bringing Los Files to Ojai. And then at that point, why am I even? And that keeps pushing. Now that's pushing all the way to Santa Ynez. With that general store. I want a getaway. I want a weekend getaway where I don't run into anybody I know, where I don't know the DJ playing in the lobby and there isn't a pop-up from a guy that follows me on Instagram. That's why you got to go to the Republican Ritz over there in Palm Springs. You won't see anybody you know. That's the secret. That's the low-key secret. That's what I'm working on. I will say, Rory's Place is really good. I think, I'm sure you guys have done Bell's in Los Alamos. Yeah, I went to Bell's pretty recently, actually. The California road trip dining situation is excellent. The only reason I want to go to... Harbor House Inn up there? I want to go to Ojai for the new hotel. That's the only reason I want to go there. I think that there is nothing to do, Jason. But I'm going to go there. I'm going to feel like I just went out in Hollywood.

When I go there, it's the same food, the same people, the same music, the same decor, but now it's next to a mountain two hours away. Yeah, I mean, I think that... Not for me. I don't know. I want to be transformed to a whole new land. We all like Palm Springs, but it's also a dump. Like, I love it, and I would choose to go there every time. I don't even know why. Like I literally, I literally don't know what I like about it. You can't replace the desert energy. There's just something there. That's how I feel about most places though. I know pretty quick, like this is for me or this isn't, you know, like I, like within 10 hours, I'm like, you know what? I never need to come here again or I'm going to come here for the rest of my life. There's sort of no middle ground. Are you guys tennis guys? Are you tennis guys? Yeah. The Indian Wells operation, I mean, obviously tennis now every tournament everywhere has become a huge thing, but Indian Wells is one of the most impressive sporting events anybody's putting on. Jason, didn't you DJ last? Was that last year? Yeah, I DJed a party with Racket Magazine last year, and a lot of people thought I was Djokovic. For whatever reason. It's an amazing operation. The good people at Amex really do a good job over there. That's Larry Ellison. It's Ellison's brainchild. He's got Indian Wells, and then he's got his sensei, that spa resort operation that he's running out there. It's nice to be there in a literal oasis in the middle of just empty fields, and you just see that Nobu sign. and you're like wow i know i'm home he's run that play in lanai also which is even crazier i mean you're literally on this like right island with nothing and then there's the four seasons and there's the nobu and bro that's larry larry's home i mean if i had that kind of bread that's exactly what i would do where do i want to go and what i want to be there that's it like we'll do those i want bring the spicy tuna crispy rice to me i don't care if this place has no running water electricity Um, okay. So we were talking about, um, about the, the, the pizza and the waiting in line for all that stuff. And when I, when I have walked past series, series, how's it, how's it pronounced exactly? Serious. Serious. Wow. Right. When I said that, my phone thought I was saying Siri. Hey, series. What, why are you, why is your lines long? But whenever I walk past that line.

When I walk past people in line for, like, certain things, like, line culture is very big in New York. Every weekend there's a Reformation sale or a new boba place or rice to riches or whatever it is. Chris Black waiting for an appointment at Stofa. Yeah, that's me. I need some pants. More flowy. Can I just stand outside? Do they come in suede? But you can see where, or if, you know, I'm waiting in line for a somber album signing or whatever. And you can see the level of fun, like, because we, Chris and I joke around a lot about, like, I think people are starting, like, we're so fucked, people want to stand in lines, like, they don't know what to do, so the line offers them some structure in their life or whatever. But when I walk past that Pizza Play series, everyone in line looks, it looks like a methadone clinic. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain.

Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, La Grange, Georgia, Charleston, South Carolina. Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a three-night stay anywhere? Anywhere. What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris? Yeah, Hilton Honors, baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad in Tulum? Hilton Honors, baby. What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties? When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. Like you guys are waiting in line for arguably the best pizza available in America. And you're about your moments away from sinking your teeth into it. You've got your hard earned money. You're ready to go. This is supposed to be a celebration. And everyone looks so like they don't belong there. Like I shouldn't be waiting in line. I shouldn't have to wait for food. It's also dark. But then you see like a boba pop up or the Reformation sale. Everyone's smiling, happy, can't wait. You know, it's like when the iPhone first came out and everyone was like. That was a real sense of community, I should say. The Whitney Museum, I have two kids, and the Whitney Museum does this, like, kids drawing class on Saturday mornings. And because of, like, kids' naps and timing and whatever, like, people like to be there right at 10 when it opens. And the enthusiasm that these toddlers have...

At like 9.58, standing in front of the Whitney, waiting for it to open, is probably the energy we should all have. Like, if you're going to wait online, that's the vibe that you should have. Paul, that's exactly, because Equinox doesn't open until 8 on Sundays. Let me tell you something. The few, the proud that are standing outside that Equinox before the doors open, it's the same thing. It's a childlike energy of excitement that we're ready to get in there. If you know that it opens at 8, why don't you just go there after 8? Well, no, you get there. I try to time it for 8-0, you know, whatever. I get there. there at 753 because i'm walking so fast once the moisturizer himself right yeah exactly exactly i mean i think treadmill number 12 is kind of mine so i have to be there early i've walked by that line a few times i love that pizza and i think that place is really good i just don't i think i we've talked about this a lot on the show and i'm paul i'm sure you have some insight on this but sort of like how this kind of stuff affects an actual business because the people that you want to eat there can't eat there basically. And it's only the people that are willing to blow two hours waiting in line. And that has to be discouraging for the restaurateur or the chef because it's like, obviously you're making more money. So it's sick. It's the same thing as a place where it's like, we do, we release 12 burgers a day. Yeah. Are you subtweeting Dunsmore? How do we feel about Dunsmore's burger policy? Dunsmore is the worst restaurant I've ever been to. Are you serious? I like the Dunsmore bar. Chris and I don't like the actual restaurant. The bar around the corner, the crowd is bad because it's a bunch of people trying to get the burger. You mean the crowd waiting for the burger? And also eating the burger. Once they're in, it's all bad. So are you okay with the main dining room crowd? Do you think there's meaningfully different crowds? I only went there once. I've eaten in Dunsmore once or twice, and I did not enjoy my experience there. There's a couple of restaurants, Paul, I won't go back to. That's one of them. I don't like the fact that it's community seating. I don't like the fact that it's beer and wine only. Not all communal.

I mean, I could sit at the hearth at the bar. We're going in January. I'm coming out in January. I'll go with you. And I'm going to sell you guys on. Why would I go there when I could? I'd literally rather go to Air One and have buffalo cauliflower. Literally. I mean, I would rather do that. It costs less. I don't have to drive 45 minutes to the end of the earth. Well, but going back to the burger of it all part, like the bar, the Dunsmore bar around the corner. There's people who have created an interesting menu. I had some really good pickled mussels on Bub and Grandma's bread and a good cocktail or a good martini, a good glass of wine. And you're surrounded by people who are waiting to get a burger, ordered a burger, finished a burger. They're all in different forms of burger eating. They're all filming themselves. I never had the burger. Now I feel bad. I'm ahead for the cornbread, and they got one of the best steaks in America. Yeah, the cornbread is good, but to me it's a one-biter. You're eating four sticks of butter and some cornbread. It's good, but it's a one-biter. I don't know how, Paul, I don't know how you keep that nice, thin, wiry frame eating all this shit you're talking about. You ever eat anything healthy, or is it bad boy only? I try and stay healthy at lunch. I would say lunch is pretty healthy. Okay, you keep it light. There's some sashimi. So genetics, got it. I mean, so you guys are talking about, though, Dunsmore has, like, they give out, they make a certain amount of burgers per night, and that's known, so people are going there. And a lot of places do that. There's a spot in New York I was just reading about, and they were, to me, like you were saying, like... the food doesn't go to the people they want it to go to. The food goes to the people who are willing to eat dinner at 3.30 p.m. on a Tuesday and just like, oh, I'm going to get this burger, so I'm going to go wait in line for three hours to get it and eat it. It's sold out before dinner time begins. But let's unpack because there's a few things there. One, if you have a restaurant that's popular enough to do that kind of business, you are happy.

Because most restaurants, it's not working, and it's not working that way. I don't think any chef is happy, but I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. If there's a line of people, if there's a surplus of... Yeah, of course, of course. Two... In these trying times. For sure, restaurant people, chefs, restaurateurs, they want regulars. and that balance of when a place goes viral like how do you take care of the people who want to show up to be part of a trend and how do you build regulars who might be there for you as that trend fades i think is a very tricky balance i think what you see a lot of places doing is having different times of the night end up with different mixes of clientele you can only get the burger at four and at 11 30 at night like that kind of yeah i mean the pizza you were talking chrissy's it was like what after 11 p.m at uh superiority burger is how you could get the pizza i don't know chrissy's so they came out of the gate hard with like a big line and a lot of angst about how long you have to wait wait did that not did that not start as a thing that you would get at superiority burger like he would be there at like after a certain time and make i really thought that's where that's that was the original i think you may be right it definitely had some pop-up incarnations yeah yeah yeah before the before the okay i just want to make sure i'm not thinking about something they now to be fair to them they let you order online and like pick your time that you want to pick up And, like, Chrissy's has made getting their pizza totally smooth. Is it banging? Yeah, it's really good. It's really, really good. And they've been doing some New Haven tomato pies, which have been really stunning. How far? Where is it, though? Greenpoint. Greenpoint. Okay. Wow. Edging out OG Paulie G. They're trying to get his ass out of there. They said, all right, old man. I'll go anywhere by ferry, man. I can get to you by ferry. That's actually a good policy. I want to try that, though, because I am a Zaza lover. But I think you're making a good point. If the restaurant's making that much money, everybody's got to be mostly happy. Yeah. But I mean, if I was a restaurateur, I would not be happy if I work really hard and I want the right people eating my food, the people who really like it and love it and they're friends and they're cool and blah, blah, blah, not just people who are only eating your food to mine it for content and where people who would rather be eating it in their car on selfie cam versus

with their friends, having a delicious meal. Don't talk about my favorite guy, the crumble guy, who tries the new crumbles every week. He sits in his car, and he's got a big glass of milk, and he tries every cookie. Days until he kills himself, probably. You guys see People magazine top food things in America from this year, and big thanks to you guys. EatsCon right in there in the top. I think we're in the second spot. Crumble in the third or fourth spot, it hit a little different. I'm actually surprised anyone beat crumble. I feel like crumble... You and Jason did. I think there was more... I'm better than crumble. Yeah, I've never had a crumble, actually. I've only had... Levant is too... It's a scone. It's not a cookie. It's a different thing. The Levant, I love the Levant chocolate walnut. They used to make them frozen. They were better than when you get them fresh, when you make them at home. Meaning you bought the cookie frozen or you bought the dough frozen? You used to be able to buy the... like a box of the cookies, like par baked at like whole foods in the freezer section, you put them in the oven for 10 minutes and they, they came out better than when, what is, what is par baked mean? Like they're already just like halfway partially. Oh, I see. Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. Okay. The last point I'd make on lines is, and hopefully this is a place where people find infatuation and Jason's Instagram useful is there are so many places to go. Yeah, definitely. It doesn't have to be this way. Y'all what we're proud of is like, the breadth and depth of our coverage and we got reviews on places that nobody else has been to we got guides to neighborhoods and cuisines that nobody else is covering and i think hopefully one of the things people can do on infatuation and on our social and everything else is see spots they don't already know about and push out into different parts of the city, push out to different cuisines, different places. Is it noodle pudding or something? I want shit that is neighborhood specific. We got it. Infatuation is working well. No, I know. That's what I'm saying. I think that when it's general by city, it's like, all right, bro, what the fuck am I going to do with that? I'm in London. There's a fucking million restaurants and everything takes an hour to get to. I need something a little more localized. Have you hit Luca? No, I go to the same five places when I'm here.

I'm all good. I'm good. I don't need to take the tube for another hour to try something else. No, Luca's in clerk at well. You're probably sitting on top of it. I'm literally, yeah, I'm there right now. I'm actually there right now. She clerked on my well to let Luca. Okay, let's move on. We've talked about for the last couple of years in our post-COVID dining world, they'll say 6 p.m. is the new 8 p.m. in terms of a dinner reservation. And I think in the last year, six months to a year, It's turning into 4 p.m., 5 p.m. is maybe the new 6 p.m. How much of that do you think is because people kind of have no more social or don't have a social life anymore? And how much of that is, you know, we're listening to these wellness gurus saying we have to go to bed at 9 p.m. and we have to eat dinner four or five hours before we go to sleep. So you do the math and now we're all eating dinner at 4.30. watching an hbo show and going to bed at eight nine o'clock every day yeah i mean i think it's probably all of the above right it might be easier to get a reservation some people think it's healthier you might save money with a happy hour menu yeah if you're someone who's part of return to office at a lot of big companies you might just want to grab something as you leave the office five five thirty six instead of like going home or going to the gym with chris and then heading back out um i definitely think that's one of the big shifts over the past few years in my time in infatuation is like just when people wanted to go out was always in my mind like a 7 7 30 8 o'clock situation and then you'd have some european friends who wanted to do later and now so often if you suggest something 7 7 30. People are like, oh, that's a little late. Can we do earlier? Those people are me. Those people are me. I got 8 o'clock tonight, and I'm like, I have a snack. But it's also not just food and eating. Back in the day, you would go out to a bar or a club or a party or an event, and everything started at 10 p.m. And now, I went to a Robin concert last night. It was kind of a private event kind of thing. If it said doors at 10 p.m.,

I don't think anyone would have gone. You know what I mean? It's the appeal of the European wedding, by the way. I mean, Americans love a European wedding because then they get to come back and say, yeah, we were out until 7 a.m. Beethoven Market, which obviously lit up Mar Vista this year, and we were definitely part of that. Apologies to the neighbors. Lit up Mar Vista is something I've never heard. Mar Vista is fucked out now, bro. Good luck. You should have seen the... The strollers. Marvisa is the Atwater Village over the west side. The stroller parking at Beethoven Market is one of the great sites in Los Angeles. You know, I've never been. I haven't been to Beethoven yet. I've never even heard of this place. Beethoven Market, a kind of neighborhood Italian place. One of our best new restaurants in L.A. this year. Really, really good. And also... Very much a neighborhood spot that the whole city decided they had to descend on in the same like month of time. And so kind of humorously became like a really hard reservation to get. And there was a lot of like people just kind of waiting out on the streets and car parking. It became a lot of drama in the neighborhood, but it's a great spot. And they open at four o'clock. and that place is full at 415 430 i don't like anything that i don't need to try anything that bad like i don't i just don't man i just and you can and you're a person who does not cook or even want to or know how to yeah like i i just find that to be i like to try the new places of course like i like to keep up and know what's going on and it's fun and i i think the experience is is you know always worth it whether you actually like the food or not you know what i'm saying that's the whole point But, man, there's something about, like, or the way people travel and they have four meals a day because they've got to travel. I'm like, I can't. At a certain point, it's got to be diminishing returns. Don't you just want to eat something you like at a time you want to eat it? Well, we're in a time where we don't eat restaurants because we like the food and want to try it. We're going to four different spots or driving to a small neighborhood to get spaghetti meatballs.

We can have an opinion about it when people ask us, you know? And I think there's something for everyone, to be fair. I think there's a group of people in that world. And I think there's a lot of people walking into Bar Pity, which is one of my lifelong favorites in New York, with no drama. You wait a couple minutes. You talk to the guys. You get your rigatoni pity. You have fun. You're out of there in 45 minutes, and you're moving on with your night. And there's nothing wrong with that kind of night either. No, I agree. And they have the best uniforms in the world. at bar pity one of the weirdest uniforms ever created for a restaurant i would like i always like to shout that out when i can some of the best side spinach also oh that spinach is unbelievable unbelievable one of the only edible things on the menu there oh jason don't bring us down he doesn't i knew he didn't like that i like but but also that being said even though i don't enjoy the food there or i'm not impressed by it or not wooed by its uh you know magic it's a restaurant that i'll gladly go to any time Because it has that energy of like, like not everyone can get in, but there's no reservation, but there's no walk-ins. Anyone is welcome, but not everyone gets a table. And it's like, you know, it's like going to a club and like somebody is deciding where you're going to sit based on your vibe. Not necessarily if you're hot or famous, but like. I think you're making pity. I think you're making pity feel a little cooler than it is. Okay, well, let's do Giorgio Baldi as an example or Chateau Marmont. If you go on Resi or OpenTable, they'll be on there, but you can't get a Res. Giorgio Baldy, better than that. Giorgio Baldy, we're phone only. Phone only. Pick up the phone. And that's what I like. I like that. Yeah, I think we're going to come back to that if we haven't started already. I wouldn't be surprised if people started being phone. It's coming back a little bit. AI will answer it, but yeah, it's coming back. I did a thing with Danny Meyer earlier in the year, and somebody in the audience asked him, like, what's one thing you don't like about restaurants right now or one thing you wish would change?

He just said, every restaurant needs a phone number and answer your phone. It's just become too hard to reach. I remember trying to change something or adjust something and being like, oh, there's no phone number. I have to DM a restaurant and hope it's insane. It's a very boomer thing to want a phone because every young person is afraid of... When their phone rings, you got a panic attack and texting is better. Totally. I just mean from a business standpoint. Even if it's a text, just from a business standpoint, not having a phone seems bad. It could be a little bit of a post-COVID thing as well where it's like, oh, we used to have a dining room and we used to have employees that would clean the tables and serve you the food and blah, blah, blah. And after COVID, it's like we're a hole in a wall. You give us the money, you tap with your phone and we hand you a bag and you leave. It's the same. Like if you can do that, if you can live without paying somebody to answer the phones and getting the phone service and having the hours and coming in early, if you can avoid that, why not? And the volume is a lot. The Borgo guys who are like real hospitality, you know, they want to do things the right way. They had a phone number for a long time. And then the volume of calls as well. They just couldn't keep it. They were like, we're going to need a call center. Yeah, they were too early. Yeah, they're going to need a McNally call center for one restaurant, not six or whatever. I mean, I just, yeah, I know it is boomer shit, but at a certain point, it also makes things easier for the customer, and this is the hospitality business. Yeah. I mean, when I'm late for horses because Carolyn forgot her eye drops, I love texting the inanimate phone number in my messages and saying like, yo, we're late. I need to get eye drops. And then the hostess on her iPad writes back, I have eyedrops if you guys want them. I kind of like that if you get a human on the other end versus press one for yes, press two for no kind of thing. And people should know you can reply to those texts.

When you get your due at horses in one hour, that is a human being on the other side if you reply. And I like fucking with them. I say, maybe I'll be there, maybe I won't. I never respond to those texts because they text too goddamn much. And I know the restaurants can control that shit. It's like a politician trying to get money for their campaign, the way they text to me. Dude, I was so happy when the election was over just to stop getting those texts. I get enough robocalls as it is, but the texting from the reservation stuff is like, I get your... due in an hour anything else i don't want why am i i don't need to confirm what about what about hey press one to confirm like we'll see you tomorrow i made the reservation because i'm gonna go if i want to cancel the reservation i will get in touch with you to cancel it that's my i mean i guess people i guess well keith keith would tell you that not everybody i think if everyone believes yeah it wouldn't be a problem i'm very respectful if i'm five minutes late i'll call I don't like that. I don't like playing games. I understand that it's important. Of course he's not single, ladies. A guy like that who calls five minutes. Oh, man. By the way, OpenTable's app also lets you message with restaurants. I'm going to slide in Cafe Clooney's DMs and be like, what's that omelet do, though? Just like on Spotify, that's how you creep. I'll pull the bitch off OpenTable. I saw a hostess last night. I just, what's her name? Well, you got her at? Just send her a photo that you took of her, this you. That's actually really funny, but I wanted to, because OpenTable is making a real play, I know, in the space, and I kind of appreciate it's old school. I like that it's the first mover, and they're trying to come for Rezzy in seven rooms. It's like Patreon coming back, coming for Substance. Nice to see a comeback story. I always appreciated that certain restaurants stayed on OpenTable. Even when the draw of Resi was strong, they were able to resist. I just don't know what the... It seems like a brand thing. The offering is basically the same. Just follow the money. One of them is Amex, one of them is Chase, right? OpenTable has had a really good year. They've moved a lot of really hot restaurants over.

They switched a lot of people back. They also are a much larger platform. So they have like 60,000 restaurants on OpenTable. And I don't know, you know, Chris is obviously just back from the Florida coast. But when you look at the geographic coverage that OpenTable has, it's enormous. And yeah, we've enjoyed partnering with Chase and OpenTable to infuse the infatuation editorial. So we have this program where we have held tables at some of our favorite infatuation restaurants around the country. And then Sapphire Reserve customers now get a $300 annual dining credit at those restaurants. So that's been a fun program that we've worked a lot on this year. And definitely, I think it's good for diners and good for restaurateurs to have a lot of competition in the reservation space. Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably true. I like that. I just like that OpenTable, to me. I only go to OpenTable.com in a browser, and Resi is like an app. in my mind you know what i'm saying even though you even though open table you could definitely use the app and i have it on my phone i think i think i like it interesting i like it because i can type it into my fucking box like a boomer and make a table get a reservation so some websites are for your computer and some are for your phone it's like the way i won't buy a flight on my phone it just feels wrong like using open the open table app is only if i'm in a pinch i like i'm not putting my credit card information on my phone you fucking crazy what if somebody steals it Delta takes Apple Pay, guys. No, I know people love doing this. It makes life easier. But I'm in front of a computer all fucking day. So does it make life easier? I don't know. I get that. And I also am in front of the computer all day. When I look at infatuation usage, and obviously this isn't a profound insight, but it is amazing that people are just on their phones all day. Yeah, I agree. The split of mobile to desktop and the journey that's been on over a decade, it really is that every digital experience anyone's building, you just have to be building for iPhone. More people are watching films.

on the smallest screen they own versus their largest screen. It just must be an age thing. I just like to use a computer if I can. Okay, let's talk about this infatuation list, though. I know the New York number one restaurant Chris has been to, Smithereens, yeah? Oh, really? It's number one? Go off. I like Smithereens a lot. Some of the best music I've ever heard in a restaurant. And I'm sure you guys have been to Haas and Bridges. Yes, yes. Bridges just got a Michelin star, huh? Bridges. kind of man of the hour and we got bong we got chrissy's pizza um borgo which we talked about earlier i need to go i've only been there for an event i need to go there it was really nice i was wondering i was like how long till we name check lauren sherman's book no that's not why i went there i went there for a gq canali dinner so i ate there it just wasn't i didn't i didn't um you i'll tell you though the mileage borgo got out of that book party Really, like it's an amazing restaurant. It's done great on its own merits, but also that book party really helped Borgo come out of the gate. Danny and Coops. Which is the Bradley Cooper. Bro, you ain't putting Bradley Cooper sandwich on there. Are you out of your fucking mind? Go have that sandwich, man. It is really good. Bro, if Bradley Cooper tells me exactly what plastic surgery he's had done, I'll go have a Philly cheesesteak in the East Village at his restaurant. I've heard it is actually good. I believe it. I believe it. It's really good. I mean, he just paid somebody who's really good to be his part. And it's New York. It wouldn't be on the list if it was in Philadelphia because people would burn the infatuation offices down. But in New York. Not known as a place where you can get a real Philly cheesesteak, we're going to have to eat Bradley's, right? And speaking of lines, it's amazing that people feel obligated to wear Eagles merch when they go to Nashville. I don't know where people are finding these jerseys, these hats, but people are dressing for an Eagles game. I bet Bradley Cooper, I bet Bradley Cooper, I wonder what that line, I feel like he's gotten a lot of women to eat cheesesteaks that had never really considered that before on a Saturday afternoon. Dressing up.

in eagles gear to go wait in line to eat a sandwich in new york does feel disney adult to me very in a derogatory way but yeah best new restaurants best new restaurants is our big kind of campaign at the end of the year where we celebrate our favorite restaurants we our team goes out to over 5 000 restaurants a year both new and places we're returning to dine anonymously pay for it ourselves and we're always really happy at the end of the year to celebrate some of our favorites, and we send trophies out. What other cities do we cover here? Dude, we're everywhere, man. All the major cities do a best new restaurant list. Okay, I got you. We're not going to talk about the other secondary and tertiary markets, just LA and New York. Jason's working on our Ojai best new restaurant list. We'll have that next year. I would love to do an infatuation Glendale, California best of list. What is number one in LA? I know you disagree with it, so let's just go ahead. Is it Somni? Yeah. Somni? I have not been to Somni. It's like a Spanish fine dining spot in WeHo, you know, fussy, expensive. I heard it's good, but it's not really the type of shit that I want to go to. Baby Bistro's right in there at number two for kind of the Jason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Baby Bistro in at number two. We're checking all the boxes. Which is a good, it's a very good meal, but a little more for a challenging advanced palate, I think. Where are you on River? Did you go there this year? I'm not. I have eaten at River. Not a fan. Is that the former Mountain? Yes. These motherfuckers love nature. It's not Linton. It's Louisville. They left the vowels out. These motherfuckers hate a vowel. I know that every single person loves River. For me, if it was a neighborhood spot and I could walk there, I would consider it, you know, go get a highball, go get a frosty Japanese beer. The beer was probably my favorite thing there. The small veggie plates he excels at, but like the Japanese cookery by a bunch of tatted up white guys with ponytails and longboard skateboards, I'd rather just go eat at the thousand other Japanese restaurants in LA made by real Japanese chefs. I think you're also, you're very geographically driven. I mean, I'm getting a strong, you want to stay close. No, no, no. I love to travel for food and I will, but...

It just doesn't do it for me. This is a Japanese izakaya spot. I'm going to get the izakaya. Whenever I go to a restaurant and I think of 10 places that do this dish better for half the price, I'm instantly out. Can I get your Mustard's Bagel versus Courage Bagel? I haven't been to Mustard's because I would never go to Culver City. Hold on. You're saying DJ Mustard opened a bagel place? People like Mustard's Bagels. By the way, he just said, I will never go to Culver City. Nobody's going to Culver. Unless there's a check on the other end, why would you ever go to Culver City? I don't make enough money. I don't make enough money. Where are you taking your Apple and HBO meetings, Jason? Zoom. So Mustard's is coming for the Courage crown? Is that what the streets are saying? Mustard's is one of our best restaurants in L.A. this year. Look, the bagel wars all over the country are unbelievable. I mean, we talked a little about pizza and how pizza has now become a nationwide thing. And bagels, obviously, courage played a big role in that. But bagels are everywhere also. And definitely the the mustards versus courage conversation has been robust. You know what happened to me? Let me tell you guys a little bagel story real quick before we end here. Alex and I were in. We went to Bergdorf and we wanted to get a fucking bagel. And I looked I looked at my phone and pops. Pops Bagels was around the corner. I'm like, all right, I've never been to Pops Bagels. I've heard of it. I go there. There's a line. I'm like, all right, fuck it. We're here. I'll wait for a few minutes. And then I notice they just give you, there's no seating inside, and they give you a bag of bagels and a tub of cream cheese. And you're meant to go make do with that. And that's when I went to a regular New York bagelry that we found and had a normal bagel. Because this shit's got to stop. It's gone too far. Like, just give me a fucking bagel. I don't need to have... I don't need... Tell series to... I just want a slice. They say no. I don't have time for that. Do you ever hit Bagel Bob's? No. I'm saying that bagels and pizza are always good. It's a level. It's a level. Bagel Bob's on University.

Oh, I know that place. I do know that place. To me, that's the perfect bagel place. If you walk in there, they are moving it at a speed that nobody's ever moved at in terms of, like, from your order to you getting that bag is, like, 12 seconds, and it was toasted and spread in that time. They got the little, like, paper carton of Tropicana that I didn't even know anyone else was selling. I would rather go to – I would rather – Apollo is probably my favorite, but there's a place called Heaven's Hot Bagel on 4th and, like, B. Our house didn't be that's like a shithole that really I've spent a lot of time there. So I got to say, I respect it. But like the tiny, you know, affordable luxuries, I think the bagel space has really, you know, a thing that we should all, we were all spending $2 on for our entire lives. Now, you know, we can get a $30 bagel depending on how pretty it is and how expensive the toppings are, you know? Mark Bittman did it to us. Bit by the bit, man. So what's up with mustard? Sell me on it. I mean, I know Courage Bagel very well. It's a specific type of bagel. It's a little more thin and crunchy and crispy. Put the butter on it. It's really good. Really nice tomatoes. Many people say this is not necessarily a bagel, but it's really fucking good. So open face for sure. For me as a Din Tai Fung had the Nori Everything Bagel, which has like cucumbers and chili crisp and is inspired by the Din Tai Fung Cucumber Salad. It's just like a cool thing to see. Hell no. So Din Tai Fung cucumber salad. Crispy sourdough. Crispy sourdough. On top of the bagel. Jason, I think we have to try this. I think we have to try this. This is too freaky to not get our little mouths on. We'll deliver them from Culver City out to Shea Jason. Yeah, bring them to Shea Jason. We'll bring them Sunset Tower for Chris. What does the cucumber bagel run for over at Mustard's? Because people come for courage a lot for being really overpriced for a bagel. What does Mustard's run for? I don't know. I've got to check that for you. But once again, Jason, what does overpriced mean? You know what I mean? I agree. I think if someone is willing to pay the price, then it's not overpriced. And that goes across the board. As a value proposition, when I hear...

you know, this is an heirloom tomato from the Santa Monica farmer's market, and this is lox that was cured from this and sustainably pole-caught, blah, blah. Sure, sure, sure. Then you're like, okay, I see the value to what I'm paying for when I see this is 12 cents worth of flour. The moment someone says Harry's berries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just like, I know I'm in for $30. But when I hear cucumber, I know how much a cucumber costs, and it's not expensive. Hey, that's not true. I'm sure we can find it. Organic English? Organic English? We could find an expensive cucumber if we looked. They're Persian. I'm sure it's a Persian cucumber, and I know that it costs $0.30, and I know that they're using $0.10 worth of chili oil, and they're not necessarily creating alchemy, but maybe they are. I'll give it a try. Give it a try. All right, Paul, thank you for joining us. The list, the infatuation, best restaurants. He's up now everywhere you look at lists. And thank you guys for doing it. It was a fun tour this year. Our pleasure, dude. It was super fun. I loved it. We can't wait to do it next year. Miami. We really enjoyed having you. Allison Roman in LA. Allison Roman in New York. Cape Verlant in LA. And Joe Fresh Goods in Chicago. It was great. Our three queens. I forgot about Chicago. I had that life-altering nut mix. Jason, do you remember that? Yeah, it was spicy, salty, sweet. I happened to see it. It was the one place that didn't have a crazy line. And it had nice packaging. And Jason got me one. And I was like, this is fucking banging. This is it. I think it was like... one of the oyster seafood kind of spots. Yeah, it was like an oyster. Yeah, it was delicious. It was really delicious. All right, Paul, look, thanks for joining us and we'll see you soon. Bye.

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