033. - Hamilton Leithauser

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Yes, yes, it is me, Jason. Hello, TJ. TJ, I'm just eating a small bowl of peanuts as a treat. Damn, what's the occasion? I've been introducing some small meals into my day. Sometimes you feel like a nut, etc.? That's right, I'll be eating some nuts later on as well. What's the schedule like on this? On what? On nut eating? Yeah. On getting these nuts off? When you get these nuts off, what time are the nuts off? Usually, I mean, like before, I would just not eat anything at all until dinner. I'd try to eat dinner like six. But lately, it's been a little tough. So around now, like lunchtime. I'll have a little nibble of something just to push me through. That's smart, I think. I was worried about you. That sounded a little extreme. It was a little extreme, but if you saw what I was eating for dinner, then it would make more sense. Yeah, we know you're a fatty. I'm eating like a fatty. That's true. You're eating good. Have you guys slowed down on the extreme, or this is just life for you? I mean, we slow down a little bit by eating lunch on the weekend sometimes. Wow. Big changes. No brekkie, though, bro. No brekkie. I mean, breakfast is a meal that I know some say is the most important, but I find it to be not really part of the daily conversation for me either. Yeah, it's a bunch of horse shit propaganda, bro. I think it's Big Australia is who is responsible for this. Big Australia is still a part of those fucking lies. I ate yesterday a sandwich where the ingredients were French fries and cheese inside bread. Damn, you ate French fries in a fucking sandwich? Chip butty, as they say across the pond. Walk me through this. I'm not familiar with fries in a burrito.

yeah i mean like there's there is a food i mean a sandwich in london like a classic you know like a peasanty pub drunk food thing called a chip buddy buddy which is just bread like a sandwich with bread and french fries in it you know chips and you know that sounds pretty sick so you're saying what else is in the sandwich though it's not just bread with some fries and ketchup At its core, it is. It pretty much is that. If you just Google chip butty, not batty, you will see two pieces of very plain looking bread with like 13 French fries in it. Did you make proper chips, mate? Like some thick boys? No, the chips were still bought. I got it from one of the shops. I actually thought that you were at the level now where store-bought just ain't even for you. You just don't even entertain that. I thought my man was doing everything raw. I am doing everything raw, but there are some exceptions and some things that I have learned from experience that are a fool's errand to do at home. One of them I would consider to be deep frying. It's just not worth it. It makes such a mess. So what do you do? Do you just bake them? Um, yeah. Or just like, you know, go to the in and out drive through or something and get things like that. Making sushi at home is just stupid. You just shouldn't do it. Um, yeah, that seems laborious. Uh, you know, I'm excited to, to, to reconnect with my mom. Cause I think it's funny. Cause I don't think my, like if I was like, Hey mom, let's make some salad dressing. She was, she would be like, we have hidden Valley ranch in the fridge. Why would we ever make anything? You know what I mean? I mean, that is a bummer. And I think that comes with age. You just kind of, you know, Mrs. Black has made so many, you know, whatever your dad's favorite sandwiches over the years that she just doesn't want to anymore. My family, there are a lot of things. Foodies, I would say, is not one of them.

So, you know, famously, my mom doesn't really eat vegetables. So she's from the South. Exactly. Yeah. She'll have like bacon and pancakes at lunch. And she looks pretty fucking good. I got to say, it's kind of crazy. Bacon and pancakes for lunch. I mean, or whatever. You know what I mean? She's having a nice BLT with a king's schmear of mayonnaise. Yeah, but probably doesn't like tomato or something. You know what I mean? Like some weird – she doesn't eat anything. Right, right, right. Like the thought of eating like avocado is like a crazy feeling for your mom probably. They have – my dad has embraced hummus later in life, which is an interesting twist because when I used to bring home hummus from the health food store in high school, they were like the shit smells disgusting. Like put the lid on it, you know, blah, blah, blah. Now, Big Hummus has been introduced to the local Publix, you know, Kroger, over the years. Yeah, but, you know, that Publix hummus hitting different than your little health food store hummus. Like, he's got Cool Ranch flavor, you know. No, he actually eats plain, which is impressive. Damn. The world is healing. Every day. The world is healing. Gary Black will have a plain hummus after his run with some carrots. Speaking of food, I went to a Japanese market over the weekend and I got my thermometer on the forehead. Did I tell you this? No, sick. Yeah, the first time I ever got the laser on the forehead when entering a place of business. How did it feel? Marukai Market. Well, there was a scare because the person doing it, he blasted my girlfriend's forehead first. And then he was like, all right, you're good. Bing bong. Did me. And then he's like, oh, you're registering over 100 degrees. You're like, baby, TJ just runs hot. I'm from Southern Cali. And I showed him my Apple Watch. I was like, look at the numbers I'm putting up. Clearly, this must be a mistake. Damn, your dork ass pulled out an Apple Watch from this man. Well, actually, sir, if you look at my Apple Watch data, it says I'm 98.2 degrees. No, I wanted him to see the calories burned to show him that the only reason why my temp was triple digis was because

because of the kettlebells. But he was like, oh, it's just sometimes it happens. So he had me go stand in front of a small fan for 60 seconds to cool off. And then once I did that, he rescaned me and I was good to go. Damn, pretty cool. I mean, it was more scary that I was not going to be able to do my grocery shopping than being scared that I... had an actual fever and was possibly at risk of getting the coronavirus well i think part of this coronavirus issue too is that like now if you anytime i cough i'm like oh shit that's it i got it you know oh man i'm feeling i'm feeling a little like you know that's what i think a lot of people are like that i think from now on that's going to kind of be the vibe like if you have a flu or a cough you're going to think you're dying because it's where your mind immediately goes Yeah, to me, I get that moment when I do a sneeze in public. And I'm like, oh, fuck. Is everyone looking at me? And people are going to avoid me like a pariah. Well, there's going to be a lot of street fights. Because I'm serious. Because people are so on edge. And everybody's going to have their expressions covered by masks. And I think it's just going to devolve quickly into fights and shit. Well, then we're going to have to... Get some type of clear mask so people can see how pissed you are when you're about to fight somebody. Or, I mean, it's sort of like fighting a homeless guy. Like, are you this pissed off? Are you, you know, do you want to fight this person so badly that you're willing to, you know, exchange bodily fluids with a stranger that could be just filthy? And the same thing would apply to somebody who's... positive with the coronavirus are you willing to maybe get coronavirus for to fuck somebody up just to give hands well i mean jason i'm not talking about smart people you know what i mean i'm talking about like people who would be getting in fights regularly anyway i know but you know everyone has those situations of like fellas this this man grabs your girlfriend's ass what what are you gonna do you know and if

And if somebody grabs a girlfriend's ass who you think you could maybe beat up, then you have to beat them up. And then you've got to touch them and that person is going to spit on you and sneeze on you. See, that's why I keep that thing on me. So I can just blast from a little bit further away. No corona. There ain't no corona in a drive-by. You know what I mean? Right. So you pull up in the big body. The window rolls down and then you whisper to the driver. You know, like a message that we all know what it means. Yeah, of course. Do the thing. And then he sprays or I spray? He sprays. You're not even there. You're in another time zone. You're changing the weather in your private jet. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want a silencer either. I want people to hear it ring out. Keep shooting, baby. Keep shooting. On that note, we have a notorious gang member on this show today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Today on the show, we have singer and songwriter Hamilton Leithhauser, who just put out a great solo record a couple months ago. It really impacted core. I think it came out... like right when core started it's called the loves of your life um he had another solo record uh in 2014 and in between he did a record with rostum um a a multi-instrumentalist and producer rostum multi-instrumentalist and producer who you probably know from vampire weekend who also put out a great solo album um but before that hamilton was in the band the walkman which if you're cool you probably remember Yeah, I definitely remember me and Aoki playing some Walkman on vinyl. Damn, Aoki playing Walkman on vinyl is very cool. You already know what it is, baby. You already know what it is. So, you know, he's lived through the kind of meet me in the bathroom era of the music business, which, as you know, I'm fascinated with. So just, you know, being on the fringes of that, but they've also, the Walkman, I think, had a lot of syncs.

and a lot of big placements, particularly with that one song. Oh, that's right. Which is interesting. And they were also, I read today, actually, they were in the finale. They were the final scene, the soundtrack to the final scene of How I Met Your Mother. The final scene ever of the show. Of How I Met Your Mother? Yes. See, I mean, it is a powerful tune. It is. No, I think it's a different song. That's the craziest part. Oh, it's a different, wow. yeah yeah yeah but i'm saying like that kind of stuff is truly like things that people i don't think really think about about how bands of this level really make a serious income is like shit like that is just like you know some guy some producer or some writer on the staff is like a big fan and just like figures a way to work it in yeah by golly i'm you know i'm the music supervisor on how i met your mother and i freaking love the walkman and you know if i can if i can get their song on this shit and make them a lot of money, then they're going to become friends with me. Exactly, exactly. The same way people want to be on this podcast, you know what I mean? Because they want to be friends with us. You're goddamn right. But I don't know where he is quarantined, but he does have two children. So I'm also, we're getting another dad guest, which I, trying to homeschool and also, you know, do NPR live streams is probably a tough thing to juggle. Oh, brother, it's tough. He's on the front lines. He's truly on the front lines. I hope he has a mask on. All right. Let me give him a call. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area.

You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone has brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone.

It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Oh, baby, we're in business. Oh, man. Solving problems. Where are you? It looked like you were fucking hunkered down. Like, where are you? Totally, right? Mailing people. I'm outside of Leesburg, Virginia. Actually, the internet has been sort of decent, but today it's been just totally shot. I don't know what's going on. Well, it's okay. We made it work. This is our first time. Jason, is this the first time we ever used the actual phone? I think so. And it's definitely the first Leesburg, Virginia episode we've recorded.

Yeah, that's for sure. I actually have some family near Blacksburg, Virginia. Is that close? I don't know Blacksburg. I've seen it on the map. I don't think it's that close. Virginia's actually a pretty big spot. It is a little big. So you're there. Your family has a home there, I assume? Yeah, my parents have like a... house here and uh my family's been living here for whatever since new york schools shut down so did you guys just bail like when it was time it was time we went wait should i be recording this on my own thing yeah i'm gonna record it hold up yeah it doesn't hurt yeah no i'll just put it on because this is what i've been doing with all my interviews because i just i have a mic here don't lump us in with all your other interviews Yeah, we bailed when the schools closed. Things were getting a little crazy up in New York. Where do you live? I live in Bedford, Stuyvesant, Brooklyn. Okay, you're really out there. Real family life. I live in the East Village, so I'm very far from it. I want my ashes to be scattered in the East Village. I feel like that's where my heart is. What's to be on? I'm on Avenue A and 4th. I was on... 7th and A for a while, and 6th between 1st and A for a very long time. Oh yeah, you were in the hood. That's like really, yeah, right down the street. I mean, I've been at my girlfriend's place in Montreal for most of the time, but I'm going back soon and then going to drive south, actually. My parents are in Atlanta, but I'm ready to reconnect with America. Uh-huh. What's the Montreal scene like? What's social distancing like in Montreal? i mean man it's pretty uh it's pretty loose i think yeah that's what i would imagine it's not like it's the worst in canada apparently but because it's like they just don't care i don't know people aren't really there's not a lot of masks you know but otherwise i mean i don't know it's not that it doesn't seem that extreme but i also haven't been in new york where it's really extreme so jason's in la and i think it's pretty extreme there right it was i drove through new york i drove through new york lake

um three weeks ago because i had to go get stuff from my house and it was crazy it was like uh like the bqe was empty and like canal street i just like flew across canal street in the middle of the day it was crazy that's the thing i want to experience it before like yeah it was a little bit like you'll never see that again that's what i mean i feel like i've missed out i mean not missed out that's the wrong term but like i feel like it's a pretty wild scene but my friends say it's a pain in the ass to live there now because You do have to wear the mask every time you go outside, and the grocery stores have huge lines, and if you order something on delivery, it has like a four and a half hour wait. That's really, truly, that sucks. That's like the worst. I can't imagine New York like that. Well, did your record come out right when this shit happened? Yeah, April 10th. Oh shit, it really did. Right around the peak. It might have been a weekday. So this was like a marketing tactic that you had, planning this virus and stuff? I don't know. Talk to my manager, man. He came up with that plan. All right, so here's what we're going to do. But did everything get canned immediately, or did you guys kind of roll with it for a little while and then make decisions slowly? I mean, people asked if I wanted to postpone the record, but I didn't see why. I mean, nobody knew when it was going to end. most people listen to it online anyhow. And I'd already like, you know, the only thing that really sucks, I can't go play the concerts, but no, I wasn't going to like, I've been, I've been working on this thing for like four years. I wasn't about to like, let, like stop it. I don't know. Yeah. Records already get delayed enough as it is without a worldwide pandemic. Yeah. I mean, I had to fight to get out on April, man. I finished it in like September and, and you know, I wanted to release it in like January, but everybody else was like, pumping the brakes and like saying they had a great feeling about april 10th you know i think that that that the pushing it back is i don't really get that either like you we've talked with us a lot of the podcasts actually what are you waiting for yeah you have a captive audience what's the difference like besides touring and obviously i think a lot of the bigger artists like are ticket bundles and shit to get charting

you know is the major thing but otherwise i don't see why you wouldn't just put it out right yeah april 10th was perfect for me i listened to it on my way to coachella this year it was the perfect soundtrack yeah right yeah uh well i mean but have you been able to do i mean so you've had to do all this promo and all this bullshit like during the pandemic basically i mean that's not so bad because It gets me away from having to teach first grade. I can pass that off to my wife for a few minutes. Doing interviews over the phone, that's kind of fun. It's nice to reach out and talk to people. It's nice to see people over FaceTime. I wish we could be FaceTiming. I think you guys have a nice little bedroom set up there. Yeah, we really do. Oh, it's very nice. Jason's been wearing a posture corrector around the house. Oh, really? He looks a little funny like he's got a child's backpack on every time I see him. Is that for medical reasons or for aesthetics? It's not for a medical reason. It's just something that always fascinated me. Something to do. But I never really pulled the trigger because I would never wear it in public. So is it like a big... plastic thing attached to your back or something? No, no, no. It literally looks like the straps of a Jansport backpack and that's it. It's a small black device made out of nylon. You buy it on Amazon for like 19 bucks. I had neck surgery one year ago on April 9th, a year before my record came out. And the dude... They jack you up because your discs have deteriorated or something like that. I walked out and I was literally something like a quarter of an inch taller than I was when I went in. Then the dude told me, the other thing is that you're going to have better posture now because you're compensating for the pain in your neck for the last 13 years. I was like, all right, that sounds good. I was so just...

doped up and they just let me walk out of the hospital i was walking down madison avenue a quarter of an inch taller and by standing up ramrod straight and high on oxycodone or whatever i felt like a god that's god level april morning that was my favorite memory of damn that's a nice little scene Oh, yeah, they're hot. It felt good for a while. My daughter was born, and then my second daughter was born, and then there was a time I was high on oxys and a little taller. It was fire. It was wonderful. Did your neck, were you like an athlete, or is it from rocking? I mean, probably a little of both. I mean, how long did you put the surgery off for? A long time. I had the pain for, I was getting... I was getting treatments when we were making You and Me, the Walkman record. That was like 2007 or something. That's a long fucking time. It's probably from bad posture. It's probably from flying on airplanes and curling up like a... Yeah, definitely. How tall are you, Hamilton? 65 and a half. Oh, yes. Another tall guys only podcast. Don't sleep on a half. i'm i'm six four jason's six nine so you're coming in and you're coming in number two also rare to rare to hear the half inch when you're up in this rarefied air you want to unpack that yeah right is that strict is that strictly because of the surgery you feel like boasting or is this have you always yeah like i real i got it yeah now he was he was six five before the surgery a year ago no no six five and a quarter now Oh, okay. We were giving you two. I didn't mention the quarter, but the half, I mean, that's like, you know, if you're rounding up. So do you have any more Oxycontin left is my next question. I took every single, I think I went back to Walgreens to double check that there weren't any more refills. That's what happened. I mean, that, that surgery sounds pretty serious to be honest. I'd like next year.

Yeah. Why do you think I put it off for 13 years? You know, the first time I went in, because it really hurt. The first time I went in, the doctor, I had this MRI and all this stuff. And the guy, I was sort of getting my nerve up to do the surgery. And he looked me right in the eye and he said, okay, now what we're going to do is we're going to, and he held out his hand towards my neck and he said, we're going to go in through the front. And I was like, I held my hand to my neck and I was like, you know what, man? And I left for about 10 years. Yeah, that's pretty intimidating. I don't like that. Call me when you stop going in through the front. Going in through the front. I was like, I've heard enough. There's no way I'm doing this. That's fucked up. I mean, was the recovery long? Yeah. Well, I didn't fully realize, or maybe to actually wipe my memory, but I had to wear this neck brace for like six weeks or something. I definitely cheated. But you have to do it. Were you making music or were you just chilling? Yeah, I was like, I think it might be when I turned the corner of my record. I actually started liking it. Like everything suddenly sounded great, you know? Yeah, drugs do that. When you're that doped up, you just think you're, yeah. I guess that's how people make rock and roll records. So just to get the visual, you're in a recording studio with like 10 guys with a neck brace on? No, I made this record alone. So I was in a recording studio. with blasting just absolutely blasting my speakers to hell just high as hell and uh i gotta say you're really finally getting some good work done you're painting a picture that sounds pretty nice right about now yeah i gotta say last april with my neck braces was going a lot better than this april did yeah that's a good point actually yeah it sounds where did you do you do it in la or did you do it in new york no i did it in new york i built myself a studio in my house Oh, shit. That's an upgrade, I feel like. But there was a producer. It wasn't just you alone, or did you do it all yourself? No, I'm the producer, man. I did it alone. Is this the first time you've ever done that? Yeah, I was. And it was a lot of work. Yeah, I was about to say. So would you do that again? Yeah, I was going to say, would you do it again, or are you good? I think I'm going to do it again. I really enjoyed.

I like, after all these years, I like being able to do it. Like, well, I have kids and stuff, so my schedule gets weird. But I like to be able to record when I'm, like, sort of in the mood rather than, you know, being in the studio and paying hourly and being under the gun to, like, come up with a good idea. I mean, I always find recording studios to be a little bit, they're, like, conducive to time-wasting, for sure, depending on how nice they are. Yeah. Definitely. I spent all the hours over the years where one guy in my band would be recording his part for nine hours or three days. The rest of us would go out to the local Rockin' Robin's diner and just sit and Google shit on our phones. I think social media has changed this, but back in the day, people thought the recording experience was so glamorous. I would always explain, no, it's literally a bunch of dudes sitting around while one dude does something. is totally true that is exactly what it is it's really not glamorous it's it's truly like a job at that point i think it's a lot of waiting around did you have all that you leave is when somebody calls you and they need you back there immediately well of course yeah you can't go to the diner forever man you gotta work they need you did you buy all this shit did you have a lot of it sitting around was it like yeah over the years Yeah, I've like accumulated a bunch of stuff over the years. So I have, I mean, it takes some doing to get it all together, but I have a pretty good setup going now. That sounds right. Did you have to leave to do, I mean, you did drums somewhere else, all that shit, but most of it was out. No, I actually did the drums at home. I went, I finally, I thought maybe I needed to just like cover all my bases. And I, so I did like bring my, fly my drummer up from Texas and I hired out like a nice studio. in new york and we went in for a couple days and redid all the parts and and just wanted to make sure that i was like you know i don't know not missing something big and uh and then a couple i i put them on my songs a couple weeks later i don't i don't like any of this shit and i uh i just deleted all of it and i just kept all of my stuff i mean i guess that's the only way to learn is to do both and compare them side by side

Yeah, had I not done that, I would have always wondered if I was making some huge mistake. But I mean, I don't know. It's just like that. You just get used to being in your own space and not having to worry about being in somebody else's room and getting it done at a time. I don't know. Maybe I'm just cheap. I think I'm just cheap. I think I just don't want to pay for it. I mean, well, in theory, I guess I'm surprised you waited this long to build a studio. I feel like that's like... one of the first things people do and they get a little coin or did you move? Well, we, I had my band, my old band, we had a studio at the beginning of our band and that was pretty great. But, um, what era in New York in like the mid aughts? It started in 2000. We opened it in 2000 and it closed finally. It was in Harlem. Oh shit. So you were out there. Yeah, it was bad. It was awesome. It was an old Nash Rambler car factory and it was. built on two levels where the ramp went from one floor to another. So it had like this big kind of weird room. And we made our first two records there and a little bit of the third one. And then we like started touring so much. And then the thing is, it's expensive as hell. We had an analog studio and like nobody does that in New York anymore. It's like very few people record analog and, and it's just takes us so much room. You might as well, you know, we started going to Memphis and stuff. And so we finally closed up shop when the neighborhood started getting really expensive. I mean, at that point, it becomes like a storage space for gear if you're gone. Right, yeah, we were always on tour. It was just not very practical. Are you missing touring right now, or do you feel like you were happy to have the break? No, you know, I kind of am. I was, like, kind of psyched to have the break and be home and make my record and take the girls to school and have this, like, great schedule, and I got my fill of that. and I was really kind of thinking this spring was when things were really going to get back to a lot of childhood. I think that's a creature of comfort shit, because you've been doing this for a long fucking time. I mean, you've been doing this for 20 years, so it's like... Yeah, I mean, the novelty of having the schedule and being in one place was amazing for the time I made this record. It was incredible to be in New York, and I don't think I'd been in New York in the fall in like 10 years or more.

That is prime time. That is prime time. Yeah, I've always been gone. And it was something I really appreciated. And then I got my fill, and I started getting a little bit psyched to go out and do all this stuff. Did you guys reschedule this shit? The COVID hammer. Is it just kind of sitting? Yeah, it's getting all rescheduled right now. We just announced the Euro dates this morning. It's going to be a year. First, we pushed it to late summer, and then they were going to push it to November. There's no point in pushing it. It's going to be a year. I feel like that's the smarter way to do it. You don't have to go back and do that shit twice or anything. We talk about clothes a lot on this podcast. We have some designers on, and I work in the fashion industry. Oh, really? Yes. And you're known in some circles for your look, just being a little more formal when on stage. And I'm very into it. It kind of harkens back to a different time. You be dressing. You really be dressing. But is this something that you've just always liked? Did you dress like that when you were a kid and you just continued it? Or is the collared shirt something that feels like stage clothing to you? When I was from the time I was nine years old until I was 18, I went to a prep school with a dress code and you had to wear a coat and tie. And I guess I just got used to it and I never stopped. I mean, I'm I think it's nice. I think it's also I mean, what do you what do you get? I just want to feel more comfortable in a. in a collie shirt and a blazer. I just, I don't know. I guess it's just, I was trained. What are we rocking? Is this custom? What designers do you like? At this very second, I'm sitting in a feed shed in Leesburg. There's a lot of spiders and stuff. And I think there was a snake in here actually last night. And I'm wearing a Brooks Brothers, I'm wearing a Brooks Brothers white shirt right now. But I mean, in general, like are you having stuff made or are you buying it off the rack?

This is really funny that you're asking me this question right now, because, OK, I was like in Seattle last fall. I can't believe how long ago that was doing a press thing for my record. And we're meeting all these like big companies there. And and like I had some time to kill because we had some meeting with somebody. And. I was wearing my blazer and I spilled motor oil on it or some terrible thing. I was complaining on the phone to my wife that I was like, I always hate this blazer because it's always too small and I'm too tall. Now I'm a quarter inch taller and nothing fits me anymore. She was like, this is funny that you say that because I was listening to this podcast last night and there was this targeted ad for this made to order like whatever company that'll take your measurements and then you order it online or something. And I was like, really? And I was, she was like, yeah, it's called Indicino. And I was like, looked up and in front of me was this enormous store called Indicino. And I was like, wow, okay, I'll try it. And I walked right in the door and some friendly dude measured me. And, uh, and then, uh, and then I, I like the dude, whatever I picked out a blazer and he sent it to me and I was like, Oh, that's great. And the thing fits. And I was like, great. Wow. Love Indochino. That's so great. Then I wore that blazer in the promo videos that I made for my record where I did one with Ethan Hawke and I did one with Maggie Rogers and I did one with Sienna Miller. And I was going to do this really banging one at the end that got canceled because of COVID. Anyhow, Indochino saw that I was wearing their blazer. And now Indochino is going to give me some other stuff and they just scheduled. a virtual fitting, an interview with me that starts in 30 minutes from right now. Wow. Wow. That's my entire story about Nina Gina. You're having a very podcast day today. I've never told anybody about that. Yeah. Wow. How long gone exclusive? I was going to ask you about those promo clips because I'm a big Gina Miller head.

It was great, and that one was at the Carlisle, correct? Yep. So what's the deal? Did you just call in some favors and like, let's get this shit popping? Yeah, just friends who were all very nice about it. Had you ever had a glass broken over your head before, a Hollywood style? No, the first thing I had broken over my head was a table, actually. I didn't know what that was going to be like. Do you feel anything at all or nothing? No, it's like being hit by a piece of paper. Fuck, that's so interesting, actually. I was worried he was going to break it in his hand before he smashed it, but he did a great job. He's a real pro. I love that. He's a real pro. Those videos were really good. Thanks. I wish I made the last one. The last one, I'm telling you, it was going to just be the absolute. be all is there a plan to make it once this is all yeah you know what i'm thinking about doing is like releasing it 18 months later you know yeah just well i mean you know look sometimes these albums have a long tail yeah yeah exactly right yeah it would be a real big build up save that for the night was single yeah when you're yeah when it's the when it's the night again the alvarez more set model you know hit the ninth single um I grew up, Jason and I, we're probably all pretty similar in age. And I remember the Walkman and you guys had a pretty big moment. And I think that we are really interested in this show about licensing and syncs and how that plays into a band's career. And I just feel like you guys had some big ones. We did. We did. We had paid the bills for a little while, yeah. Is that something you were ever weary of or was it always like, fuck it, let's do this because this pays and it's pretty low impact? I mean, we at the very beginning, I remember the first time we ever got a phone call about one of those really big things. And it was like, I just remember, I think it was when we got like that Saturn Ion commercial. And it was like one of those big national ones that that was, you know, on during the Super Bowl and all that kind of stuff. And they give you a lot of money.

I mean, you know, we're, you know, for us, it's like, you know, unbelievable amount. And I remember being like really wary because it was like one of those things like, you know, everything's just sort of selling out and stuff. And then, and I remember like, we finally agreed like, you know, we're not making any money on these tours and this is crazy. We got this. And, and we did it. And then the New York Post called that afternoon an ad for a quote on how to be able to sell out. And I was like, it feels great. So we sort of took some shit for it. And then it felt like five minutes later, every single band was clawing for that opportunity because Napster just took everybody's money away. And it became almost like a cool thing to do. And I watched so many of my friends start doing it all the time. Nobody caught any flack. And then by the time you get to... i don't know a million years later when we i just had a like iphone commercial and then like you know it's like people like think it's like great you know people like it's like oh it's a full 180 i agree it's like yeah people like admire the artistry of the ad you know what what world what song was in an apple ad uh my song in a blackout oh yeah yeah okay okay okay i mean the apple ads are specifically like the ones that people really they really mattered in those early days too that was like when the ipod first came out that was like a big deal right yeah i think they're still well yeah has have has any of your sinks been in like a movie situation that you you thought was amazing or you you thought it really did help the artistic vision or was it all just a check um Yeah, I mean, I hate to sound so cynical about saying that, but to be perfectly honest, when you're like a touring musician, that's absolutely, undoubtedly the first thing you think about. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I mean, it's been a lot of cool. I've had like tons and tons of movies. Do you know what your favorite was? I have said no to plenty of stuff, too, that I thought was like...

You know, not that I've ever been asked, but like if somebody like the NRA was going to ask me something, you know. I'm shocked at that. I thought you would love it. But, you know, there are like times when it just sounds really wrong. It's like some sort of it seems like somebody's going to do something really weird with a song and then you don't do it. But yeah, I don't know. I watched that show. I really think I got Bill Hader and I was watching his show the other day and the credits flipped and it was. when the truth is my song and it was a pleasant surprise oh and i was watching we watched uh breaking bad a couple years ago and it's something like pivotal scene also and i was like wait i know that i know that piano and then it was so you so you will watch so you will do a sync for a big show like that and not even care about approving approving it before it goes or anything like that or even i mean i'm sure there was a time Well, back with the full ban, you got five people. And so the whole discussion becomes like this email back and forth. I mean, there were a lot. So I don't remember. And when that happened, I didn't know what Breaking Bad was. I'm sure there was a day where somebody said, this is a great show on HBO. There was a 40 email chain that said we should do this at some point. It's a good problem to have. it is a good problem stick in the mud though you know there's always some email one email that holds all the other emails up it's just a group dynamic you know there's a lot of people talking about also right now how like the era of like video games really push songs like the madden and like those video games in the early days which i also remember those soundtracks being like really important which is right about now insane video games are like a huge industry right It's embarrassing. It says a lot about society. People our age play them too, right? It's not just like 12-year-old boys anymore. Well, you can make millions of dollars. So anytime you can make millions of dollars, that will appeal to almost anyone. When the guy died from being sedentary for too long, that's my favorite video game story. Oh, no. He just died. What, he forgot to eat or something? No, his body literally stopped working. He forgot to move. He's been sitting for too long.

Yeah, he's just been sitting in a chair. He's, like, stuck to the floor or something? Yeah, basically, yeah. It just didn't work. He just didn't get up. You know what I mean? That's tough. Truly incredible. That's a tough way to go. That era, too, I mean, when you were in New York in the mid-aughts and, like, the, I like to call it the meet-me-in-the-bathroom era now, is kind of like, did that... with living through that is it funny to look at it now like that being popular music at the time because i feel like music with guitars is not on the radio anymore or or not you know prone to blow like it was at one time right yeah i mean i remember like um it's funny that that was sort of mainstream music i mean i wouldn't think it always just felt like sort of me and my friends were making music at the time um i remember being at like festivals when we were younger and you go and play and and you maybe like know a lot of the other bands or something and there'd be a lot of bands and then in the latter later days of the walkman um we would show up and we would have like flown in or something and there would be the guys like here's your back line here's your drum set here's your guitar your amp or whatever and and we were the only band that was using any of that stuff on the stage. And they would have some kid with a laptop in front of us dancing and playing his laptop. And then we would set up all our crap and play. And then they'd strike all our drums and all our hands and everything. And then some dude would get up with an iPod or something like that. He'd paid ten times as much as us. I mean, that's the thing. Those guys make a lot of money. It's a much less expensive way to participate in the music business. Yeah, it started feeling a little bit... funny after a while it really felt like we were like dinosaurs i mean i think that i think we're going to come back around to some extent um i i have a lot of feelings about a post-covid world where it comes to clothes and music in general i think people are going to be feeling nostalgic and i think guitars and drums do that more than a computer can i mean i like seeing a live band i you know all those i couldn't name very many of those people that we were playing with and they sort of all kind of ran together

Yeah, it's called EDM. It's a pretty big thing. Do you think that's a little bit of a reason why you did a solo record? To experience what it's like to be an EDM artist? You don't have to split the money five ways, baby. No, I still maximize my bullshit because I still bring a full band. Are you the asshole that shows up at the string section? Not that. But actually, every once in a while, I'll hire them out of Craigslist. But no, I still got all my dudes. I fly them in from Texas. Hold on. When you get a string section, you find them on fucking Craigslist? We started that in about 2007. And it started with horns. And we would show up in Gainesville, Florida to play at the university. And we would... you know not want to fly our horn players from new york so we started placing ads in local craigslist listings and people would i remember i think the first time ever was in miami i remember these dudes came in miami and so we started doing and and the thing that was funny about it was that the the rule that we learned after doing it for you know maybe a year was that when string players came 100% of the time, they were absolute aces, and they got the job done, and they just could read the music, and they'd do it, and it was, bam, it was great. Hold on, were they playing a full set, or were they playing a couple songs? They were playing the parts on six or seven songs. When the horn players would come, half the time, they could really play. Three quarters of the time, they could play. Sometimes they couldn't even play. But 90% of the time, there'd be something like really like, like the guys would get completely trashed and they would just like cause like a big scene or like, or like they would disappear and you'd never see them again. They wouldn't need, they show up for soundcheck and they check and then you go on stage and they're gone. So horn players, the worst of all. I remember having, we got some, picked up some dudes in Berlin and we were driving from Calais into the UK and like we get to the border and

And one of the trumpet players pulled out a Cuban passport and the UK border card was like, what the fuck is this? And he was like, how'd you even get into France? And he's like, I don't know. And they're like, no. And they just like turned all the horn players back or like going into Canada one time and Vancouver, crossing in Vancouver. And, and, and the, the guy, you know, they put, you give them all the passwords and they all sit down and then he all, they call you over one by one. They called over one of our. horn players and said have you ever been convicted of a felony and he's like yeah like yes i know yeah i'm a horn player of course i'm i'm a felon i didn't know i didn't know they had that reputation but i do think the craigslist thing is a very economical way to because i feel like you see that most on like you know when you play late night shows or saturday live there's always a big string section the horn section but it's special it's more special if you you know do it at a regular show Yeah, and getting some locals is always, well, it's not always fun, but it's sort of fun. It was like a little wild card after a while, too. Yeah, that's right. It's something to do besides just driving and looking at the fucking road. And waiting and drinking beers. I mean, touring is truly the least glamorous thing in the world, too. I don't know. Did you guys do, at the height of the Walkman, did you do crazy shit like open for the Rolling Stones? No. Okay. Sorry, I literally saw the Rolling Stones recently and the Kooks opened it. I did too. Yeah, same, me too. And I was like, what the fuck is going on? How is this band? Whose son told the Rolling Stones this band was cool? It was mind-blowing. But to be fair, opening for the Rolling Stones, no one cares about you at all. So it's almost in vain, really. I kind of enjoyed the show, actually, to be honest. It was much better than the last time I'd seen him, which was Steel Wheels. I paid a lot of money for that ticket because I thought it was my last chance, which it might be. It might have been your last chance to ever see anything. But my friend, yeah, the guy that got me the tickets, he didn't tell me this, but he was like, oh yeah, tickets, it's like $600 or whatever. I was like, all right, fuck it. And then I meet him and he gives me the full, like we have the full passes because he's gotten the tickets through like Ronnie Wood's son or something.

So it was a much better experience than I thought I was going to have. It was awesome. It was fun. It was good. But they were good. They looked old as hell. It was shocking. Yeah, but they were up there doing it. You got to hand it to them. Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%. I mean, they are old. But look at Mick, man. He's jumping all over the place. He's like skinny as a bean. And he's like putting on a big show. I love that he wears the full Mick Jagger stage clothes. But he's got like Nike running shoes on because his feet are so fucked up. Oh, totally. Yeah. Oh, he's black. He can't, he's not rocking the, the Beatle boots anymore or whatever, you know? No. That show was good, but yeah, so you guys, you, you never got the Stones opening gig. No, I never got the nod from the Stones, unfortunately. I just feel like there's an air, I feel like when everybody, I feel like every band kind of has that chance if they're, if they're on the right, with some, not the Stones specifically, but something like that, you know what I mean? We did plenty of like stadium opening shows, but never the Rolling Stones. In America and Europe, everywhere. I love that. I love a stadium. I think it's a special experience. Yeah, but it doesn't matter who you're opening for. If you're playing a stadium show, it doesn't matter who you are or who you're opening for. Nobody cares about the opening band. I mean, you can go see anyone. Anyone, anywhere. That's how it is 100% of the time. I agree. Well, I think the opening band in general is kind of a tough thing now. I think people are so... discover music in such different ways now that that's not how it works anymore. Right. You know, they're not showing up early to check out something new so they can go buy the record. Maybe post-COVID, that'll change, though. Maybe everybody's hungry for it. I mean, I'm telling you, it's possible. It's a post-COVID. I mean, you're going to pivot to being a first-grade teacher and give all this shit up, so you need to figure it out now. That was a quick pivot that I did not ask for. Five hours a day, five days a week, first grade. Five hours a day?

I mean, with my little one, she, yeah, on and off. But the moment you try to go do something else, she can't really kind of follow along. So she'll just kind of sneak off and start doing something else. And then you got to get her wrangler back up. Are you on, is it on zoom? Like it's on, they got the system. They do a great job for what they do, but it's, you know, on, yeah, some of it's on zoom and some of it, I don't know. We always have trouble connecting. Are they engaged enough? Like, are they, are they paying attention? The older one? Yeah. But she's just sort of like that. third grader is like that but the first grader is a little loose with the uh with the rules and the timing that's that's i mean that's a lot of time i didn't realize it was five hours but i guess that makes sense it's still less than regular school day yeah it's much less anyhow yeah that's the other problem is that all of a sudden then it's like you know 1 1 p.m every day you suddenly got both kids home all day that's tough let me tell you what do you do well so what do you just have time blocked off or you gotta go do promo shit in the barn I mean, a little bit of both. Yeah. Like I tried about my wife still has her job. Thank God. So, uh, she works and we kind of like, you know, there's no like babysitting or anything. So we're just, yeah, you got, we got two kids all the time. Your parents are around though, aren't they? Yeah. You'd think they might step in more. I think they've been there. Like we passed that test and we don't need to do that anymore right now. I appreciate it. I appreciate that approach. I appreciate that approach. We're good here. Hamilton, are you the kind of guy who needs a little alone time for himself? I mean, I love to have a little me time and I try to have it every week. We try to do like a day or something, but it's basically impossible with little kids. They're going to come bother you. Can you at least go on a little country walk through the Virginia Hills? I bought a bicycle. Did you guys know that there's a national bicycle shortage and there is a national dumbbell shortage, both of which I purchased and had to wait weeks for? We're on the front lines of the kettlebell. It's a whole thing. I've got one in Canada that I'm borrowing, but I bought one on the black market that I'm going to pick up in New York. They're like $200 for a 25-pound weight. I paid $140 for the 35-pound kettlebell.

You know, I just waited it out on Amazon and I got them at market price. Damn, I didn't know. What kind of lifting are we doing? Just curls and stuff because, you know, I can't go to the gym anymore. Just hitting those vanity muscles? Oh, yeah, I do a little workout. I do what I can with my busted neck and my busted knee. Oh, your knee's fucked up, too. You are falling apart, man. Basketball injury. I've had two surgeries on it. Did you play, like, seriously? No, but it sounds really good if I tell people I can't really jump in this game because I got an old basketball injury and I'm really tall. People think that I must have had some glory days. Jason, you should try that. Nobody believes that Jason would have played basketball. I don't know why it doesn't work with that height, but no one believes it. No one ever asked me. I mean, I think that – is it an ACL injury? No. Well, it's MCL. It was sprained ACL. It was a lot of stuff. Now, it basically is just cartilage because this was 10 years ago also. I had my second surgery actually at the beginning of March, so I'm really glad I got that over with. Really? There's a lot of surgery discussion today. What about your vices and consumptions going on right now? What are you taking back? I was just going back for more oxy, man. I was making up my knee. We've been there. Don't worry. We've been there. I will say that in this time, I have found myself like, why not? I don't have to go anywhere tomorrow. Let's have another drink. Let's sit around and have another cocktail. And I bought my bike and my weights to kind of break myself out of that habit a couple weeks ago, and it has helped a lot. Okay. What's the quarantine cocktail for you? Whatever was available was fine for me for a while. You name it. You smoking weed over there in Virginia? What's that? You smoking some weed over there in Virginia? That is legal, fully legal in D.C. now. It's so weird. There's a shop where I grew up in northwest D.C. on Macomb Street, which is right up from my house. There's a full-on weed shop like you're in Amsterdam.

It's crazy. I can't believe I'm seeing this day. I didn't know that about DC, actually. I didn't realize. Yeah, I bought my mother-in-law. I don't know if we can say it. I went in there and bought some Christmas presents there. That's nice. I love to hear you supporting the local economy. Yeah. That's important. Are you a Discord guy? Is that what you grew up with? I mean, I grew up going to the show because they were $5 and they were all agents. Did you see? Did you see Minor Threat or just Fugazi? I was a little too young for Minor Threat, but I saw Fugazi many times. And I was working at Inner Ear Studios when they were recording Red Medicine. So I got to meet them there when they were doing that. Sort of later Fugazi days. Yeah, but Red Medicine is a classic, though. That's pretty good. Yeah, that's in the pocket. That's definitely in the pocket. That's definitely in the pocket. D.C. seems like a pretty funny place to grow up. D.C. was, I mean, as a kid, it was great. Looking back, it is kind of a weird spot. But I didn't know it at the time. I didn't know anything else. Did your parents work in politics or no? Not politics, but my dad does work for the government because he works for the National Gallery of Art. Is he a curator? They don't have curators. He's the head of the design department. So they just have a slightly different system than like the Met. Are they fucked right now or are they figuring it out? They are fucked. Those institutions, like the money they're losing, like I saw some crazy facts about the diploma that was like mind-blowing. Well, the terrible thing is they're going to, when they start reopening, they're going to... They're not going to be able to let as many people into the building. And so for those reasons, they're starting to push back all of the completely finished exhibitions. And planning an exhibition takes like years. They had 13 coming and they're pushing eight of them back or something. You're talking like decades. It's going to push them back if these things ever happen. They'd have been completely done. So that's tough.

I mean, because in reality, they're surviving strictly on endowment, like donations, correct? Yeah. Well, you know, they get some government money, but I would imagine it's the endowment. Yeah. I don't really know how that works. Is it free to the public, though? Yeah. That's the great thing about D.C. is all the museums are free. I mean, you know, it's so great for kids. You take them to the Air and Space Museum, and it's really great. I didn't realize that, actually. I didn't know they were all free. Yeah. And, I mean, you go to New York, and it's like... I don't even know what it costs to get in the moment now, but it's a lot. I think it's like $30. I snuck in to the Jed thing right before the COVID hit. I'm glad I got to see it. I wish I'd seen that. It's great. I mean, it's not as big as I thought it was going to be, but it's very good. And it wasn't that busy because people were freaked out. So I think I made the right choice. I think I made the right choice. Well, Hamilton, thank you for joining us, sir. All right, guys. It was a pleasure talking to you. Hey, it was a pleasure. And do you have anything coming up you want to talk about? Are you doing any live stream performances or anything of that nature? I'm going to do this. When is this air? Tomorrow. Oh, no, I'll just wait because I got to announce. I got to wait to announce stuff I'm doing. Okay, fair enough. Well, they know where to find you. Thank you and be safe out there. Enjoy the woods. All right, guys, you too. I have this audio file here, too. I can email it. Yeah, I'll text you. All right, boys. Later. Take it easy. Bye-bye.